A couple times I was not able to have CA penetrate the pin bushing. Perhaps I had the wrong brand of CA. But I have the feeling pintite penetrate deeper. If I do not see an openning along the pin, I won't use CA but pintite. I normally put at least 2 pintite applications. But even with Pintite, I'm wondering why not drill a small hole in the bushings to appliy the cure directly to the pinblock. Did not tried so far. Someone did ? With CA or pintite or both? Pierre Pouliot -----Message d'origine----- De : pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] De la part de David Ilvedson Envoyé : 5 octobre 2009 23:23 À : pianotech at ptg.org Objet : Re: [pianotech] Pin-Tite Several techs have reported cutting a doped pinblock and seeing the pintite went no farther than the 1st layer...could be that superthin CA glue goes no farther, but there have been a lot of good results from CA if you can't replace the block... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: nature.dude <nature.dude at yahoo.com> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 10/5/2009 6:52:36 PM Subject: [pianotech] Pin-Tite >I was reading the following article below regarding Pin-Tite. I find >it interesting. It seems like many techs are confusing pianos treated >with Pin-Tite with pianos treated with antifreeze? Maybe? Below is >the article. What do you all think? >(article: http://www.player-care.com/pintite.html) >Facts About Pin-Tite� > by Craig Brougher >I also want to answer in regard to what I feel is not a fair assessment >in regard to Pin-Tite and the Guild. It was said by Doug Rhodes that >the fact that nothing had ever been written about Pin-Tite in the last >15 years of the Journal stands as mute testimony to the "fact" that the >PTG does not endorse pin tighteners. >While it is true that no official articles have been written on pin >tighteners (which would require a comparison test between potential >advertisers in the Journal), neither have there been evaluations of >technician schools (which the PTG doesn't endorse or rate, either.) >After all, Charles Flaum included their lack of endorsement as proof, >too. The Piano Manufacturer's Association has never in its history >endorsed any after market product, yet Charles and Doug are, by >inference, including this as a proof that Pin-Tite is damaging to pin >planks. Charles said that the entire industry is clearly opposed to it >since no one in the industry endorses it. Doug seconds that motion. As I will show, that is incorrect. >Pin tighteners got a bad rap when, in the 50s and 60s (around here, at >least) it was said that Mobil Oil Co's antifreeze was as close to pin >tightener as you could get and at the time sold for about 50 cents a >qt. So armed with no knowledge and trusting completely on hearsay, >dozens of tuners in this city filled their bottles with it and ruined >thousands of wrest planks. Not that other brands wouldn't do just as >good a job of ruining them, but the tuners saved the $3.85/plank. This >wave went around the country for about 10-15 years. >Finally, tuners known to do this got a bad reputation, and suddenly the >entire guild ran as far away from pin tighteners the other way as they could get. >They went from one ridiculous extreme to the other. Never ever trying >to find out if, in fact there was actually something to do the job >safely and permanently (as proven by the total lack of research done by >the PTG and admitted by Doug and Charles as well). >It was lots easier to just throw the baby out with the bathwater. Lump >all pin tighteners together and pretend they didn't exist. They are >presently in this mode yet today, fearful that they will be labeled, otherwise. >Anybody who says they use it is immediately persona-non-grata. That's >why I did it! I enjoy being "their" persona-non-grata. It gives me a >lot of pleasure and confidence. I enjoy it. Besides, I, and thousands >of other legitimate (but very quiet) users of Pin-Tite are not the >exception, and there are some very fine PTG techs I know who swear by >it! Just not very loudly, lest they be labeled a "hack," which pleases >some, and right here on this MMD page! That doesn't bother me. I know what's right and I always stick up for those things. >People know they can trust what I say. >I think that if a man does not fear what other people will think, he >will not simply go with the flow, but will be honest and curious about >trying to learn what and why. If anybody is actually interested, a >chemist could explain how a resin impregnation system is permanent and >cannot possibly hurt any wood product. I'm surprized that so far no one >has said, "I think it an important enough subject to warrant further study, and to prove one way or the other." >Instead, all I have read is, "I don't know, and I don't care to find out." >The principle behind all of the early pin tighteners is this: Glycerine >in alcohol is absorbed by the wood. The alcohol evaporates, leaving >glycerine behind. Glycerine has a great affinity for moisture, and so, >draws water out of the air to join with it. As moisture is adsorbed, it >fills the spaces, increasing hydrostatic pressure in the plank. This >crushes the wood tightly around the pins until most of the space is taken up by the moisture entrained. >The pins rust eventually, not from the glycerine, but from the moisture >in the air. The next thing that happens is this: The glycerine migrates >away from the pins and gradually finds its way deep into the plank, >where it no longer can be of use. The powerful action of wood to wick >liquids is stronger than the glycerine's ability to stay where it is. >So gradually, the water then leaves the wood. When it does, it leaves >behind a crushed cellular stucture which has destroyed the plank. >Sometimes they can be repinned, but it isn't likely. And the pin holes seem "mushy" to tune, and never seem to hold a tuning. >If you had repinned several of these planks, only to have your >customers breathing fire down your neck, you would know why tuners ran >as fast as they could from pin tighteners. >Now comes Pin-Tite. It was formulated by a real live chemist who knew >how to do it. He ran years of experiments. I have spoken to his widow >about it, and the tests which were done to prove it. Her son today is a >professional chemist who supervises its manufacture and tests it. It >doesn't rely on water retention/compression at all! It is made from the >resins which come from wood and a delivery system which allows the wood >to "absorb" it, NOT just entrain it. That means, it is not simply a >coating but an integral part of the pin hole area which chemically >reacts with cellulose, dries completely, and becomes a permanent part >of the plank again. There is nothing in Pin-Tite that does not come >from wood. The resultant tuning is a restored plank, with that nice >little pin "jump" restored, just like Bruce Clark and others want to feel. >Pin-Tite will not work well on any plank previously treated with a >glycol or any other system which relies on water retention. You are wasting your money. >However, despite the PTG's fearful silence on Pin-Tite, you must >realize that all of these products have been advertised in the PTG >Journal, and that all of these products are still sold by the carload! >And guess who buys them? PTG members! That, friends, is the ultimate >endorsement. It's just that they don't talk about it anymore, lest the >stigma is also applied to them. One day, this will be corrected, but >until physical principles are respected and trusted, the same taint will be applied to all who use it. Ridiculous! >E-Mail to: Craig Brougher >Phone No: 816-254-1693 >NOTICE: >The third parties mentioned in this article have been contacted and >asked to present any scientific and/or practical information which >refutes Mr. Brougher's comments. Thusfar, none have responded. For the >position of the Piano Technicians Guild regarding all commercially >available products, including Tuning Pin Tighteners, >click here. For other opposing and agreeing articles written about the >use of Tuning Pin Tighteners and Loose Tuning Pins, click here. The >hyperlinks within this paragraph are just a small part of the Archives >located at the Mechanical Music Digest website. > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: 10/05/09 18:23:00 -- J’utilise la version gratuite de SPAMfighter pour utilisateurs privés. Jusqu’à présent SPAMfighter a bloqué 3204 courriels spam. Nous avons en ce moment 6 millions d’utilisateurs de par le monde entier. Les utlisateurs payants n’ont pas ce message. Vous pouvez télécharger la version gratuite: http://www.spamfighter.com/lfr
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