OK, in further thought about this. In my mind, a few things come into play.
1. Damper timing. How consistent will it be? Lowering the rail will move
the wippens down also moving the spoons as well.
2. If say, in the tenor bass area, it needs to be lowered 1/8" (just a
figure) and in the tenor-treble area, it would need to be lowered 1/4" (or
more) that will not make for a straight line to start out with nor would it
make for a consistently even touch with either the key or with damper
timing. Plus, we know that it doesn't take much to change what the touch or
response of a piano will be when changing things like this or in changing
damper consistency.
3. It would not eliminate all lost motion. It may leave some areas with
too much or, it may leave some areas with not enough lost motion. Thus, a
touch that is not uniform. Again, I suggest in because of some of this,
the possibility of bobbling hammers. Now, if we were to raise the capstans
instead, probably 20 minutes worth of work, 30 at best, we would raise the
back checks. the function of the key would remain at the same height in the
back and the touch should be more consistent, I think. Right?
4. When you drop the rail, it eliminates how much movement the key can
make. Think, pushing it all the way down to be extreme. How far up would
the key be able to push it and how would that affect the action and action
touch over all?
I guess I have to revert back to my original thought which is why are those
little blue screws there in the first place? To firmly hold the action in
place where the factory deemed the best resting position for the rail itself
because, those other screws do over time, tend to work themselves loose
which will allow the rail to move about.
Now, with that said, how do we know this hasn't taken place or that the rail
hasn't already been moved at least once?
When I regulate an action, I always level keys too. It makes a tremendous
amount of difference with touch consistency over all regardless of the
quality of the piano. In my opinion, anyway, for what it's worth, moving
that rail down will surely eliminate some lost motion but it may create
other action differences as mentioned above and in other posts. Yes, I have
repositioned the rail before myself too for a fast fix, but I was not always
satisfied with the final outcome of everything including the feel. However,
whenever I regulated the entire piano, adjusting hammer line etc., all
together, I've always been the most satisfied with that.
Jer
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Kerry
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:09 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
Tom,
I agree, these and the old-style Acrosonic were probably the best designed
spinet actions (oxymoron?). I'm not sure I agree on the angle change though.
It's probably a matter of diminishing returns anyway when you're talking
spinets, but the horizontal section of the sticker directly behind the rail
is pretty short. If you drop the rail enough to make a difference in lost
motion, it seems like the angle change would be pretty radical because the
top of the vertical section would return to its original position, and wear
on the cloth would exacerbate any effect.
As you say, there are other factors that play a role in an action that's
usually less than optimal in design and condition, but that's my take on it
anyway. If there are any spinet design experts out there, maybe they can set
me straight ;-)
Kerry Kean
_____
From: Tom Driscoll [mailto:tomtuner at verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:21 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
Kerry,
The whippens have dropped because the backrail cloth and sticker cushions
have compressed. Essentially the top of the jack has lost contact with the
butt.We are talking about such a small change in the angle of the horizontal
part of the sticker that in my opinion moving the rail has little
consequence in regards to friction. These actions play very easily from my
experience and I agree that friction is always a concern in any action, but
in my opinion key pins ,tight key bushings and balance rail holes , capstan
condition, and too early damper timing have more impact in this regard.
If the action is too worn then reconditioning is required instead of
regulation and I'm with you there,
I kind of like these actions as they remove easily and although the piano in
general may have limitations they are miles ahead of almost any other drop
action in servicability and playability.
Best wishes,
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kerry <mailto:kerrykean at att.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
If I'm visualizing this right, the wippens have already dropped and they're
still sitting on the capstans. By lowering the rail (I've done this too)
instead of raising the capstans, what you're changing is the angle at which
the capstan addresses the cloth on the horizontal part of the sticker. It
seems to me you could be introducing some friction, especially if there was
a lot of wear on the felt. I'm with you guys on removing each key to adjust
lost motion, and only lowering the rail if the capstans are too high already
(which probably means the action is worn out anyway).
Kerry Kean
www.ohiopianotuner.com <http://www.ohiopianotuner.com/>
_____
From: Gerald Groot [mailto:tunerboy3 at comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:36 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
You know, you could be right Tom. I'm picturing lowering the rail which
would move the wippens lower, which yes, will eliminate lost most alright
but, wouldn't it also leave the possibility of less after touch if the
capstans actually needed to be moved up for the compensation instead? Hmmm,
got me to thinking now.. Especially if dampers are barely coming from
strings from normal wear and tear or, am I visualizing this funny?
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Tom Driscoll
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:55 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Groot <mailto:tunerboy3 at comcast.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Wurlitzer spinet ugh
I might add that you will have to be careful in doing this. If there is not
enough after touch when you lower the rail, you will have bobbling hammers.
You may want to check one or two in each section, bass, tenor, treble to see
what kind of feel you have in this before proceeding all the way with the
others.
Also, if they keys are not level, that will make a difference in your
aftertouch as well. It will be inconsistent. While lost motion eliminates
a lot of problems, the rail will still have to be set at the proper height
first. Usually, when the blue screws are set, that is about where the
action belongs, but nothing is set in stone with pianos.
I do the same as Tom, removing keys, turning the capstans, getting a feel
for how many turns are required before putting it back in and then do a
whole bunch at a time once I get the feel for it.
Jer
Jer,
I'm not following you on this one. When you lower the rail it is the same
as raising the capstan. In either case the whippen starts moving earlier in
the keystroke and no matter what the aftertouch situation there will be more
aftertouch after moving the rail and less chance of bobbling.
Just my take,
Best wishes,
Tom D.
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