Robert Wall, One of our RPTs here in St. Louis, not "super" computer savvy. Ken Gerler ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 > Another succinct but mysterious post from the Wall...who is that masked > man? > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- > From: "robert wall" <robertemmett.w at gmail.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Received: 2/1/2010 10:45:09 AM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 > > >>Im sick of this if the "concert Technician" said the pins were fine, have >>him tune it.Robert E. Wall St.LouisU.S.A. >>On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:42 AM, <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote: > >>> Send pianotech mailing list submissions to >>> pianotech at ptg.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> pianotech-request at ptg.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> pianotech-owner at ptg.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness (David Love) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:41:55 -0800 >>> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> >>> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin >>> tightness >>> Message-ID: <000301caa34c$b386d340$1a9479c0$@net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> THE DC does normally belong under the soundboard. I think what Wim >>> describes are unusual circumstances where other measures are necessary. >>> A >>> 15 watt DC connected to a humidistat and attached to the action stack >>> can >>> help in very high humidity conditions where repining may not be the best >>> solution and lubrication is ineffective. It?s not standard but can >>> help. >>> After acclimation of such an installation be prepared to tighten action >>> screws. In this case, we were talking about a possible solution or >>> temporary measure to address an overly tight pinblock. It may or may >>> not >>> work anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>> David Love >>> >>> www.davidlovepianos.com >>> >>> >>> >>> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >>> Behalf Of Piano Boutique >>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:33 AM >>> To: pianotech at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe that a DC belongs under the soundboard. If it is under the >>> pin >>> block it dries out the block and makes the action too loose. If the >>> action >>> needs lubing or pinning, that is the way it is, but I have seen a lot of >>> clattery actions and I have followed it to the DC being placed at or >>> under >>> the action. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: wimblees at aol.com >>> >>> To: pianotech at ptg.org >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:49 PM >>> >>> Subject: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> For what it's worth, when I first got to Hawaii, I saw a lot of DC under >>> the pin block, and I moved them under the piano, where I thought they >>> were >>> supposed to be. But then the other tuners told me that putting them >>> under >>> the piano doesn't do any good, but they are needed in the action cavity. >>> We >>> put DC's under the pin blocks because there is enough humidity in the >>> air, >>> and it never gets cold, so the air, and subsequently the pin block, >>> never >>> dries out. What the DC does do is help keep the moisture out of the >>> action, >>> and thus keeps the centers free. I have noticed, however, that a lot of >>> grands without a DC in the action cavity, do have sticking centers. >>> >>> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT >>> Piano Tuner/Technician >>> >>> 94-505 Kealakaa Str. >>> >>> Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 >>> 808-349-2943 >>> >>> <http://www.bleespiano.com/> >>www.Bleespiano.com<http://www.bleespiano.com/> >>> Author of: >>> The Business of Piano Tuning >>> available from Potter Press >>> www.pianotuning.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: William Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net> >>> To: pianotech at ptg.org >>> Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> Hi David: >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with you that the 15 watt damp chaser bar under the block is >>> unlikely to destroy it, and would perhaps to some degree loosen the pins >>> in >>> a desirable fashion. How much and whether that would be enough is >>> another >>> question. My point was that such use would not necessarily be viewed >>> favorably by a manufacturer. I recall a few years ago I had installed a >>> d. >>> c. unit in a Steinway in a church that had significant and tuning >>> destabilizing issues due to excessive humidity and then dryness. It >>> quieted >>> the pitch movement down as expected. Some time later in an unrelated >>> matter, the church music director had a conversation with the area >>> Steinway >>> dealer, who advised her to remove it because it would damage the piano, >>> and >>> told her that it was Steinway?s position that these units did more harm >>> than >>> good if improperly installed. Therefore, they advised against the use >>> of >>> them. I thought that was idiotic, but that seemed to be their official >>> position. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with you on more radical (actually more sensible) solutions if >>> not >>> under warranty. Les will have a selling job to the manufacturer , to be >>> sure. Still the effort should be made; nothing ventured, nothing >>> gained. >>> He needs to charge appropriately for his time ASAP, for sure. Or >>> decline >>> to work on the piano in the future. >>> >>> >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ >>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >>> Behalf Of David Love >>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:45 PM >>> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> No respect needed I was being somewhat facetious which is why I >>> introduced >>> it as ?if you?re brave?. I figured people would get it but evidently >>> not. >>> If the manufacturer considers tight pins a warranty issue then send it >>> back >>> but good luck with that. Otherwise it?s the customer?s problem and the >>> tech?s job to help them find the best solution or just live with a >>> difficult >>> piano to tune. If the block is truly not tunable and if it?s not under >>> warranty then I don?t see the problem with more radical solutions. I >>> can?t >>> imagine a 15 watt bar under a delignit block destroying it under any >>> circumstances and might be worth a try in the short term until a more >>> thorough approach is considered, like restringing or removing pins, >>> reaming >>> and driving them back in. Or, you could just pawn the job off on your >>> least >>> favorite tech in the area (that?s a joke too, btw). >>> >>> >>> >>> David Love >>> >>> <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ >>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >>> Behalf Of William Truitt >>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:06 AM >>> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> With all due respect, David, I think that?s a bit of a dangerous >>> recommendation. I understand why you are recommending it from the point >>> of >>> view of shrinking the wood by drying it and therefore expanding the >>> holes to >>> make the pins looser. But the dealer and manufacturer might look >>> askance at >>> this, saying it ruined the block, thus making it Les?s problem, even a >>> potential lawsuit ? in other words, an out for them and bigger trouble >>> for >>> Les. And the repinning, without the manufacturers blessing and approval >>> as >>> a solution to a warranty problem; could otherwise void the warranty to >>> the >>> piano?s owners. >>> >>> >>> >>> It?s up to the manufacturer to decide how to approach this as a warranty >>> service problem. That begins usually by having the dealer?s technician >>> come >>> out to appraise the situation, advise the manufacturer?s tech rep, and >>> then >>> follow through with a solution. That solution might be having the >>> dealer?s >>> technician come out to perform a warranty repair such as repining, or >>> sending the piano back to the factory for repair, or replacing the piano >>> with a new one. All this, of course, is dependent on the dealer and >>> manufacturer?s willingness to follow through. >>> >>> >>> >>> If the dealer is distant or recalcitrant, sometimes an independent >>> technician can contact the manufacturer directly and work out the >>> solution >>> path. I?ve done that a number of times before, as have many others. It >>> has >>> been my experience that, once you establish to the tech rep that you are >>> not >>> a blithering idiot and actually know what you are talking about, that >>> they >>> will work with you towards a meaningful solution that addresses the >>> problem >>> and takes care of the customer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> But back to my question- doesn?t >>> >>> > the company selling the instrument have responsibility for a number of >>> >>> >years? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ask them. We don't make the call. >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron is right. Ask them. That?s where it all begins. Nobody who has >>> responsibility here, the manufacturer and the dealer as their >>> representative, can begin to address the problem and seek a solution >>> until >>> they know about it. Often they will want your experiences in writing. >>> Strictly speaking the company selling the instrument does not any >>> warranty >>> responsibilities as guarantor, they serve only as an authorized >>> intermediary >>> as part of their dealer agreement. >>> >>> >>> >>> Les needs the church?s blessing (sorry, I couldn?t resist the pun) to >>> act >>> as their agent in dealing with the dealer or maker. If the church does >>> not >>> want to bother, then that?s their call. But if that were to be the >>> case, >>> then he should be charging appropriately for that 4 hour tuning. >>> Usually >>> that gets people?s attention when the cost is twice as much every time. >>> >>> >>> >>> Will Truitt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ >>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >>> Behalf Of David Love >>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:35 AM >>> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> If you feel brave you might try sticking a dampp-chaser rod right under >>> the >>> block and see if that doesn?t open it up a bit. >>> >>> >>> >>> David Love >>> >>> <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com >>> >>> >>> >>> From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ >>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >>> Behalf Of <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> wimblees at aol.com >>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:54 PM >>> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >>> >>> I doubt if the church will spend the money to repin, much less restring. >>> Tell the minister of music that the pianos are untunable, and tell him >>> to >>> have the dealer send out his tuner to solve the problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Wim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Leslie Bartlett < <mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> >>> l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> >>> To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org >>> Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 2:39 pm >>> Subject: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness >>> >>> A local church bought three pianos, roughly topping out at $200,000. Two >>> are Estonias. On one the pins are so tight they pop, most of the quite >>> loudly making it un-tunable for all practical purposes. These are about >>> one >>> year old. What would you recommend as far as some action regarding the >>> piano? I?m afraid of twisting pins to breaking point. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> les bartlett >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >>http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100201/de363801/attachment.ht >>m >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pianotech mailing list >>> pianotech at ptg.org >>> http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech >>> >>> >>> End of pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 >>> **************************************** >>>
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