[pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2

David Ilvedson ilvey at sbcglobal.net
Mon Feb 1 12:10:07 MST 2010


Another succinct but mysterious post from the Wall...who is that masked man?

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "robert wall" <robertemmett.w at gmail.com>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Received: 2/1/2010 10:45:09 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2


>Im sick of this if the "concert Technician" said the pins were fine, have
>him tune it.Robert E. Wall St.LouisU.S.A.
>On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:42 AM, <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote:

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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: DC under block  was  Re:  tuning pin tightness (David Love)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:41:55 -0800
>> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
>> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block  was  Re:  tuning pin
>>        tightness
>> Message-ID: <000301caa34c$b386d340$1a9479c0$@net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> THE DC does normally belong under the soundboard.  I think what Wim
>> describes are unusual circumstances where other measures are necessary.  A
>> 15 watt DC connected to a humidistat and attached to the action stack can
>> help in very high humidity conditions where repining may not be the best
>> solution and lubrication is ineffective.  It?s not standard but can help.
>>  After acclimation of such an installation be prepared to tighten action
>> screws.  In this case, we were talking about a possible solution or
>> temporary measure to address an overly tight pinblock.  It may or may not
>> work anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Love
>>
>> www.davidlovepianos.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of Piano Boutique
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:33 AM
>> To: pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that a DC belongs under the soundboard.   If it is under the pin
>> block it dries out the block and makes the action too loose.   If the action
>> needs lubing or pinning, that is the way it is, but I have seen a lot of
>> clattery actions and I have followed it to the DC being placed at or under
>> the action.
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: wimblees at aol.com
>>
>> To: pianotech at ptg.org
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:49 PM
>>
>> Subject: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> For what it's worth, when I first got to Hawaii, I saw a lot of DC under
>> the pin block, and I moved them under the piano, where I thought they were
>> supposed to be. But then the other tuners told me that putting them under
>> the piano doesn't do any good, but they are needed in the action cavity. We
>> put DC's under the pin blocks because there is enough humidity in the air,
>> and it never gets cold, so the air, and subsequently the pin block, never
>> dries out. What the DC does do is help keep the moisture out of the action,
>> and thus keeps the centers free. I have noticed, however, that a lot of
>> grands without a DC in the action cavity, do have sticking centers.
>>
>> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT
>> Piano Tuner/Technician
>>
>> 94-505 Kealakaa Str.
>>
>> Mililani, Oahu, HI  96789
>> 808-349-2943
>>
>>  <http://www.bleespiano.com/> 
>www.Bleespiano.com<http://www.bleespiano.com/>
>> Author of:
>> The Business of Piano Tuning
>> available from Potter Press
>> www.pianotuning.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: William Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net>
>> To: pianotech at ptg.org
>> Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>> Hi David:
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with you that the 15 watt damp chaser bar under the block is
>> unlikely to destroy it, and would perhaps to some degree loosen the pins in
>> a desirable fashion.  How much and whether that would be enough is another
>> question.  My point was that such use would not necessarily be viewed
>> favorably by a manufacturer.  I recall a few years ago I had installed a d.
>> c. unit in a Steinway in a church that had significant and tuning
>> destabilizing issues due to excessive humidity and then dryness.  It quieted
>> the pitch movement down as expected.  Some time later in an unrelated
>> matter, the church music director had a conversation with the area Steinway
>> dealer, who advised  her to remove it because it would damage the piano, and
>> told her that it was Steinway?s position that these units did more harm than
>> good if improperly installed.  Therefore, they advised against the use of
>> them.  I thought that was idiotic, but that seemed to be their official
>> position.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with you on more radical (actually more sensible) solutions if not
>> under warranty.  Les will have a selling job to the manufacturer , to be
>> sure.  Still the effort should be made; nothing ventured, nothing gained.
>>  He needs to charge appropriately for his time ASAP, for sure.  Or decline
>> to work on the piano in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>> From:  <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [
>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Love
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:45 PM
>> To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> No respect needed I was being somewhat facetious which is why I introduced
>> it as ?if you?re brave?.  I figured people would get it but evidently not.
>>  If the manufacturer considers tight pins a warranty issue then send it back
>> but good luck with that.  Otherwise it?s the customer?s problem and the
>> tech?s job to help them find the best solution or just live with a difficult
>> piano to tune.  If the block is truly not tunable and if it?s not under
>> warranty then I don?t see the problem with more radical solutions.  I can?t
>> imagine a 15 watt bar under a delignit block  destroying it under any
>> circumstances and might be worth a try in the short term until a more
>> thorough approach is considered, like restringing or removing pins, reaming
>> and driving them back in.  Or, you could just pawn the job off on your least
>> favorite tech in the area (that?s a joke too, btw).
>>
>>
>>
>> David Love
>>
>>  <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From:  <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [
>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of William Truitt
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:06 AM
>> To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> With all due respect, David, I think that?s a bit of a dangerous
>> recommendation.  I understand why you are recommending it from the point of
>> view of shrinking the wood by drying it and therefore expanding the holes to
>> make the pins looser.  But the dealer and manufacturer might look askance at
>> this, saying it ruined the block, thus making it Les?s problem, even a
>> potential lawsuit ? in other words, an out for them and bigger trouble for
>> Les.  And the repinning, without the manufacturers blessing and approval as
>> a solution to a warranty problem;  could otherwise void the warranty to the
>> piano?s owners.
>>
>>
>>
>> It?s up to the manufacturer to decide how to approach this as a warranty
>> service problem.  That begins usually by having the dealer?s technician come
>> out to appraise the situation, advise the manufacturer?s tech rep, and then
>> follow through with a solution.  That solution might be having the dealer?s
>> technician come out to perform a warranty repair such as repining, or
>> sending the piano back to the factory for repair, or replacing the piano
>> with a new one.  All this, of course, is dependent on the dealer and
>> manufacturer?s willingness to follow through.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the dealer is distant or recalcitrant, sometimes an independent
>> technician can contact  the manufacturer directly and work out the solution
>> path.  I?ve done that a number of times before, as have many others.  It has
>> been my experience that, once you establish to the tech rep that you are not
>> a blithering idiot and actually know what you are talking about, that they
>> will work with you towards a meaningful solution that addresses the problem
>> and takes care of the customer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But back to my question- doesn?t
>>
>> > the company selling the instrument have responsibility for a number of
>>
>> >years?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ask them. We don't make the call.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron is right.  Ask them.  That?s where it all begins.  Nobody who has
>> responsibility here, the manufacturer and the dealer as their
>> representative, can begin to address the problem and seek a solution until
>> they know about it.  Often they will want your experiences in writing.
>> Strictly speaking the company selling the instrument does not any warranty
>> responsibilities as guarantor, they serve only as an authorized intermediary
>> as part of their dealer agreement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Les needs the church?s blessing (sorry, I couldn?t resist the pun) to act
>> as their agent in dealing with the dealer or maker.  If the church does not
>> want to bother, then that?s their call.  But if that were to be the case,
>> then he should be charging appropriately for that 4 hour tuning.  Usually
>> that gets people?s attention when the cost is twice as much every time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will Truitt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:  <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [
>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Love
>> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:35 AM
>> To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> If you feel brave you might try sticking a dampp-chaser rod right under the
>> block and see if that doesn?t open it up a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Love
>>
>>  <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From:  <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [
>> <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of  <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> wimblees at aol.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:54 PM
>> To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>>
>>
>> Les
>>
>>
>>
>> I doubt if the church will spend the money to repin, much less restring.
>> Tell the minister of music that the pianos are untunable, and tell him to
>> have the dealer send out his tuner to solve the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leslie Bartlett < <mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net>
>> l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net>
>> To:  <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org
>> Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 2:39 pm
>> Subject: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness
>>
>> A local church bought three pianos, roughly topping out at $200,000. Two
>> are Estonias. On one the pins are so tight they pop, most of the quite
>> loudly making it un-tunable for all practical purposes. These are about one
>> year old.  What would you recommend as far as some action regarding the
>> piano? I?m afraid of twisting pins to breaking point.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> les bartlett
>>
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>> End of pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2
>> ****************************************
>>


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