Im sick of this if the "concert Technician" said the pins were fine, have him tune it.Robert E. Wall St.LouisU.S.A. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:42 AM, <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote: > Send pianotech mailing list submissions to > pianotech at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pianotech-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pianotech-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness (David Love) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:41:55 -0800 > From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin > tightness > Message-ID: <000301caa34c$b386d340$1a9479c0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > THE DC does normally belong under the soundboard. I think what Wim > describes are unusual circumstances where other measures are necessary. A > 15 watt DC connected to a humidistat and attached to the action stack can > help in very high humidity conditions where repining may not be the best > solution and lubrication is ineffective. It?s not standard but can help. > After acclimation of such an installation be prepared to tighten action > screws. In this case, we were talking about a possible solution or > temporary measure to address an overly tight pinblock. It may or may not > work anyway. > > > > David Love > > www.davidlovepianos.com > > > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of Piano Boutique > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:33 AM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness > > > > I believe that a DC belongs under the soundboard. If it is under the pin > block it dries out the block and makes the action too loose. If the action > needs lubing or pinning, that is the way it is, but I have seen a lot of > clattery actions and I have followed it to the DC being placed at or under > the action. > > > > William > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: wimblees at aol.com > > To: pianotech at ptg.org > > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:49 PM > > Subject: [pianotech] DC under block was Re: tuning pin tightness > > > > For what it's worth, when I first got to Hawaii, I saw a lot of DC under > the pin block, and I moved them under the piano, where I thought they were > supposed to be. But then the other tuners told me that putting them under > the piano doesn't do any good, but they are needed in the action cavity. We > put DC's under the pin blocks because there is enough humidity in the air, > and it never gets cold, so the air, and subsequently the pin block, never > dries out. What the DC does do is help keep the moisture out of the action, > and thus keeps the centers free. I have noticed, however, that a lot of > grands without a DC in the action cavity, do have sticking centers. > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > Piano Tuner/Technician > > 94-505 Kealakaa Str. > > Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 > 808-349-2943 > > <http://www.bleespiano.com/> www.Bleespiano.com<http://www.bleespiano.com/> > Author of: > The Business of Piano Tuning > available from Potter Press > www.pianotuning.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm > Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > Hi David: > > > > I agree with you that the 15 watt damp chaser bar under the block is > unlikely to destroy it, and would perhaps to some degree loosen the pins in > a desirable fashion. How much and whether that would be enough is another > question. My point was that such use would not necessarily be viewed > favorably by a manufacturer. I recall a few years ago I had installed a d. > c. unit in a Steinway in a church that had significant and tuning > destabilizing issues due to excessive humidity and then dryness. It quieted > the pitch movement down as expected. Some time later in an unrelated > matter, the church music director had a conversation with the area Steinway > dealer, who advised her to remove it because it would damage the piano, and > told her that it was Steinway?s position that these units did more harm than > good if improperly installed. Therefore, they advised against the use of > them. I thought that was idiotic, but that seemed to be their official > position. > > > > I agree with you on more radical (actually more sensible) solutions if not > under warranty. Les will have a selling job to the manufacturer , to be > sure. Still the effort should be made; nothing ventured, nothing gained. > He needs to charge appropriately for his time ASAP, for sure. Or decline > to work on the piano in the future. > > > > Will > > > > From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ > <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of David Love > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:45 PM > To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > > > No respect needed I was being somewhat facetious which is why I introduced > it as ?if you?re brave?. I figured people would get it but evidently not. > If the manufacturer considers tight pins a warranty issue then send it back > but good luck with that. Otherwise it?s the customer?s problem and the > tech?s job to help them find the best solution or just live with a difficult > piano to tune. If the block is truly not tunable and if it?s not under > warranty then I don?t see the problem with more radical solutions. I can?t > imagine a 15 watt bar under a delignit block destroying it under any > circumstances and might be worth a try in the short term until a more > thorough approach is considered, like restringing or removing pins, reaming > and driving them back in. Or, you could just pawn the job off on your least > favorite tech in the area (that?s a joke too, btw). > > > > David Love > > <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com > > > > From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ > <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of William Truitt > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:06 AM > To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > > > With all due respect, David, I think that?s a bit of a dangerous > recommendation. I understand why you are recommending it from the point of > view of shrinking the wood by drying it and therefore expanding the holes to > make the pins looser. But the dealer and manufacturer might look askance at > this, saying it ruined the block, thus making it Les?s problem, even a > potential lawsuit ? in other words, an out for them and bigger trouble for > Les. And the repinning, without the manufacturers blessing and approval as > a solution to a warranty problem; could otherwise void the warranty to the > piano?s owners. > > > > It?s up to the manufacturer to decide how to approach this as a warranty > service problem. That begins usually by having the dealer?s technician come > out to appraise the situation, advise the manufacturer?s tech rep, and then > follow through with a solution. That solution might be having the dealer?s > technician come out to perform a warranty repair such as repining, or > sending the piano back to the factory for repair, or replacing the piano > with a new one. All this, of course, is dependent on the dealer and > manufacturer?s willingness to follow through. > > > > If the dealer is distant or recalcitrant, sometimes an independent > technician can contact the manufacturer directly and work out the solution > path. I?ve done that a number of times before, as have many others. It has > been my experience that, once you establish to the tech rep that you are not > a blithering idiot and actually know what you are talking about, that they > will work with you towards a meaningful solution that addresses the problem > and takes care of the customer. > > > > > > But back to my question- doesn?t > > > the company selling the instrument have responsibility for a number of > > >years? > > > > Ask them. We don't make the call. > > > > Ron is right. Ask them. That?s where it all begins. Nobody who has > responsibility here, the manufacturer and the dealer as their > representative, can begin to address the problem and seek a solution until > they know about it. Often they will want your experiences in writing. > Strictly speaking the company selling the instrument does not any warranty > responsibilities as guarantor, they serve only as an authorized intermediary > as part of their dealer agreement. > > > > Les needs the church?s blessing (sorry, I couldn?t resist the pun) to act > as their agent in dealing with the dealer or maker. If the church does not > want to bother, then that?s their call. But if that were to be the case, > then he should be charging appropriately for that 4 hour tuning. Usually > that gets people?s attention when the cost is twice as much every time. > > > > Will Truitt > > > > > > > > From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ > <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of David Love > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:35 AM > To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > > > If you feel brave you might try sticking a dampp-chaser rod right under the > block and see if that doesn?t open it up a bit. > > > > David Love > > <http://www.davidlovepianos.com/> www.davidlovepianos.com > > > > From: <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ > <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> wimblees at aol.com > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:54 PM > To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > > > Les > > > > I doubt if the church will spend the money to repin, much less restring. > Tell the minister of music that the pianos are untunable, and tell him to > have the dealer send out his tuner to solve the problem. > > > > Wim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leslie Bartlett < <mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> > l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> > To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org> pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 2:39 pm > Subject: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness > > A local church bought three pianos, roughly topping out at $200,000. Two > are Estonias. On one the pins are so tight they pop, most of the quite > loudly making it un-tunable for all practical purposes. These are about one > year old. What would you recommend as far as some action regarding the > piano? I?m afraid of twisting pins to breaking point. > > thanks > > les bartlett > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100201/de363801/attachment.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech mailing list > pianotech at ptg.org > http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech > > > End of pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 2 > **************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100201/940bbf5f/attachment.htm>
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