I suspect most of us are familiar with Wim's frustration; unfortunately, the manufacturers tend to view us, and any other warranty expense, as a cost center, not a profit center, i.e. a necessary evil. With that in mind, it makes sense to follow Gerald's example. Kerry Kean www.ohiopianotuner.com <http://www.ohiopianotuner.com/> _____ From: Gerald Groot [mailto:tunerboy3 at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:06 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer I have never had a problem with being paid by any manufacturer and I have sent plenty of bills for warranty claims over the years. The reason is, I contact them before hand to get approval and find out what information they require on my bill along with a PO # if required. If the said information billed to a church for example, is not completed properly, i.e., work done, what was done, why it was done and above all, pre-approved before the bill was sent, I would not expect to be paid. That's business. We send estimates to everyone before doing the work. Dealers and manufacturers are not excluded. If it is a warranty problem, it must be pre-approved unless you have something set up with the company in advance for pre-approval. I recently talked with someone from a different piano company via email about a warranty problem. I was told exactly what information I needed to record onto my bill, was asked what needed to be done and why, I explained it all, filled it out as requested and was paid within 2 weeks. Basically, it is our responsibility to see to it that all information is filled out correctly before we send out our bill. It is not the other parties responsibility to see to it that we filled it out correctly after they receive it. Example. I have a school here that I have been tuning for over 20 years. I get a PO # to use for the entire school year. I sent out a bill last year and forgot to type in the PO #. 2 months later, I called them. They looked it up and told me what happened. I wasn't all that happy that they didn't call me but I also realized that they probably receive thousands of bills besides mine and are not my baby sitter so, I re-typed out my bill, included the PO # and within 10 days, got my check. My screw up, my fix. That's how I see it Wim. Sorry, but I can't side with you on this one either. Jer From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of wimblees at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:15 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer To Jane: I apologize for using foul language in one of my posts. To the rest of the list: I'm sorry for bringing up this subject. From the reactions posted, it makes it appear that I am at fault for criticizing that we have to wait three months to get paid. It appears that I am at fault for Samick not processing the paper work in a timely fashion. It also appears that everyone thinks its perfectly OK for manufacturers, not just Samick, to take two or three months to pay technicians. If one of our customers is three months late paying a bill, wouldn't we get upset, and demand to get paid? All of us have to pay our bills on time, but I guess it's OK for the manufacturers to pay their bills three months late. I'm sorry, but how many of us here pay their bills three months late? Jane mentioned that the reason invoices, not just mine, but other technicians, too, don't get paid on time is because not all of the information is accurate on the invoice, and that is what slows down the paper work. I can understand that. But most technicians, like me, don't send invoices to manufacturers very often, so its understandable that perhaps not all the information the accounting department needs is included on the invoice. But who's responsibility is it to make sure the invoices do have all the correct information on it? Who approves the invoices for payment? I might be wrong, but I would think that the person to whom the technician sends the invoice, which in this case would be Jane, is responsible to make sure the information is correct. And if it isn't, shouldn't that person notify the technician about the lack of information? The question is, when not all of the information is included in the invoice, what happens to the invoice? From my experience, I guess it just winds up on a pile somewhere, and forgotten, until the technicians calls and asks where his/her money is. In other words, someone at the manufacturer needs to take responsibility for making sure technicians get paid. And that, apparently, is not happening. Yet I am being criticized for bring this up, and I am made to look like it is my fault for manufactures not doing their job. It's even being considered as being unethical. I'm sorry, but to me, it's the manufacturers, who are taking three months to pay, who are unethical. The bottom line is this. Why should we, as technicians, have to wait so long to get paid? Why can't the manufacture be held somewhat responsible for taking so long to pay us? Why I am being made to look like the bad guy for bringing this up, when it is clearly the manufactures who are at fault? Wim -----Original Message----- From: David Andersen <david at davidandersenpianos.com> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2009 7:51 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer Great post, Jane. Agree 100%. Friends, Jane Jones, Roger Jolly, and Samick USA are not "them" or "those idiots." They are us; dedicated piano people trying to treat people right. I tend to be reactive and judgemental too, Wim. Ask me how that's worked for me in a small, intelligent community like this one. Relax. We're gonna be seeing each other for years and years. Apologize to the nice lady. David Andersen On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Jane Jones wrote: Willem, As someone pointed out, I don't think this is the place to be airing. Everyone can make his or her own judgement, but we all have to work together. Accounts payable gave me check # 83594 that they have mailed to you. Your invoice was sent back to me because it was not complete.. All it had under "service rendered" was "3 hours". Obviously, they needed more information. I gave them the information and you have been paid. As for emails answered, I responded to all but the last one, but I do not respond to inappropriate language. If I somehow owe you an apology, I apologize. The industry is too small and too important to what we do to be arguing and I won't go down that road. I implore anyone who has any outstanding issues to contact me. Working together, we can resolve them. These types of inuendos and accusations do nothing to move us forward. Jane --- On Tue, 10/27/09, wimblees at aol.com <wimblees at aol.com> wrote: From: wimblees at aol.com <wimblees at aol.com> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 1:25 PM By the way, for the record, this technician has been paid for all his services, and the dealer was notified of this. Dealers are reimbursed, as well. Most of the time technicians are not privy to this information, as dealer accounts are credited many times instead of sending checks. Jane Jones Samick Music Corporation For the record, unless the check was sent yesterday, I have NOT received payment. As far as the statement "In most cases, manufacturers have problems processing invoices when they are not complete." all of the information about these repairs (customer name, address, piano name, model and serial number, amount of repairs, what was done, etc. ) were on my invoices. As I asked Jane, if the information was not there, why wasn't I asked about it in a timely manner, like a week or two, instead of 3 months later. The bottom line is this. Samick is a VERY SLOW PAYER. Don't work for them Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician 94-505 Kealakaa Str. Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 808-349-2943 www.Bleespiano.com <http://www.bleespiano.com/> Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com <http://www.pianotuning.com/> -----Original Message----- From: Jane Jones <jjmusic at bellsouth.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 1:11 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer I am sorry this type of action has been taken. As this has come up before, I feel the need to respond. If you will recall, we have had this problem before, but for the most part all issues have been resolved. From time to time, things do take longer than they should. In most cases, manufacturers have problems processing invoices when they are not complete. That was the case here. (In addition to not receiving the invoice when this tech thought we did.) I will be reviewing the way invoices are submitted and although typically, it has been a very easy process for a tech to submit an invoice, this will probably change. I encourage any technician to contact me personally at jjones at smcmusic.com <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jjones@smcmusic.com> if you have any outstanding issues, and I will gladly resolve them. By the way, for the record, this technician has been paid for all his services, and the dealer was notified of this. Dealers are reimbursed, as well. Most of the time technicians are not privy to this information, as dealer accounts are credited many times instead of sending checks. Jane Jones Samick Music Corporation Please be assured that we appreciate all help that is received by technicians in the field. We realize what you face out there and have every intention of taking care of you. --- On Tue, 10/27/09, wimblees at aol.com <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wimblees@aol.com> <wimblees at aol.com <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wimblees@aol.com> > wrote: From: wimblees at aol.com <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wimblees@aol.com> <wimblees at aol.com <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wimblees@aol.com> > Subject: [pianotech] Don't work for this manufacturer To: Pianotech at PTG.org <http://us.mc1807.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Pianotech@PTG.org> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 3:10 AM Technicians are asked by stores to take care of problems with new pianos. In some cases the store pays the technician. But sometimes the store ask the technician to send a bill to the manufacturer. In all my years of doing this, the manufacturer usually pays within a month, and sometimes even as soon as a week. But I want to warn you about one manufacturer that doesn't pay in a timely manner. I am telling you my story, so that hopefully other technicians won't have the same problem as I have had. Last June the dealer for whom I do some work asked me to make a case repair on one of the pianos in his store. At about the same time, he asked me to make a minor repair on a piano of the same brand at a customer's home. The dealer asked if I would send the bills to the manufacturer. That was at the end of June. I finally got a check at the end of September, 3 months later, but only after five or six e-mails back and forth, where each time the factory representative promised a check would be sent "right away". About 2 weeks before I got my check, the excuses were they she had been gone for a week, and the accountant had gone on vacation. In the middle of August I did some more work on the same piano, and sent another bill to the manufacturer.. I still haven't been paid, even though the factory representative told me, after she admitted never having received the original bill, she would personally "walk the bill to the accounting department". Now when I send an e-mail, I don't even get an answer back. I am telling all of you this to warn you NOT to do any work for the Samick Piano Company. If a dealer asks you to send the bill directly to Samick, either don't do the work, or tell the dealer you want to get paid by him/her. The dealer will probably hesitate, because from what I've been told, Samick doesn't reimburse its dealers, either. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician 94-505 Kealakaa Str. Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 808-349-2943 www.Bleespiano.com <http://www.bleespiano.com/> Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com <http://www.pianotuning.com/> = _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 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