more trouble than it's worth (was tune, chip with oversized pins?)

[Fenton Murray]

Daniel,
I can't help but jump in here. I been there, done that. I know what it's like to try to put a plan together and then get WAY too much information on the subject. You mentioned before the piano was rebuilt 20-30 years ago. Did they replace the block or not. If the piano has 4/0 pins, lots of ways to tell, then they probably restrung a bad block with oversized pins which is why they are now loose and why repining will do no good. If the piano has 2/0s maybe they replaced the block and just drilled the pin holes a little too large. If it's a grand take a look and see if it looks like a replacement block underneath. Just trying to help you do a little detective work which is a good way to approach these things. I know there are those who do what you suggest, I even remember a fairly recent PTJ article on the subject, but no way would I approach the job as a re-pin. Only 2 ways to go. The no risk, tiny investment, treat the symptom, not the problem C/A approach. Or rebuild the piano properly. As far as how to estimate a job like this, if your fairly new to this work I'd suggest taking your hourly wage and multiplying it by the number of hours a reputable shop would charge. Maybe 20 for a restring, 10 for a block plus materials, you get the idea. You'll spend way more time than that, but I don't think you should charge for those hours. I that old block is splitting and you drive in big pins, you gonna make things even worse and have a big old mess on your hands. Ask me how I know. I've seen uprights with the plate out that looked like they had a perfectly intact block, but that could not provide sufficient pin torque and needed a new block. There's just know way to really know. Well, I guess you could start replacing the absolute worst pins first to see how they do, probably be in the low tenor or bass, just kidding man, don't do it.
Fenton
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Love 
  To: 'Pianotech List' 
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:46 PM
  Subject: RE: more trouble than it's worth (was tune, chip with oversized pins?)


  Like everyone else has suggested, doing it the way you plan is a mistake.  You don't know whether the block might fail altogether, not to mention broken beckets, strings, etc., etc..  Don't make the customer's problem yours.  What kind of piano is it?  Either treat the block with CA glue and see how that goes or redo the thing correctly.  Don't be pressured into taking shortcuts for the sake of the customer's previous bad experience and create one for yourself.  We've all done it and wished we hadn't.  Here's your opportunity to learn from other's mistakes.   I recommend you take advantage of it.  



  David Love
  davidlovepianos at comcast.net
  www.davidlovepianos.com 

  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of daniel carlton
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:28 AM
  To: pianotech mailing list
  Subject: more trouble than it's worth (was tune, chip with oversized pins?)



  hi guys 

  thanks for the input.



  I don't get the question exactly.  Are you replacing tuning pins without restringing?  The whole set?



  yes, the whole set, without restringing.



  ...damper adjustments. etc. Speaking of which, you should remove the dampers when repinning, especially in the bass. 



  i didn't want to get into dampers. i still at the point where i don't like them. uh but i guess if i'm to do the job i have no choice. at this point, the owner might as well replace the block. i guess she had it "rebuilt" 20-30 years ago. she called it rebuilt, but it might have just been a refurbish without a new block because the pins are so loose. 



  these are the jobs that are frustrating to me, because it's always "well if you're going to do this, you might as well do that, and if you're going to do that, then you might as well do this." i think it's the stress of not knowing how much to estimate.



  anyway...



  daniel
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