key bushing miracle stuff

[Tom Sivak]

Mike

No offense taken.  I appreciate everyone using their
expertise and experience to look at this from
different perspectives.  I think some valid questions
have been raised here.

Bob at Pianotech says they impregnate all their
bushing felt with VS Profelt before it goes out the
door.  I've never had a problem with their felt not
sticking, although that's different than soaking the
felt and the mortise with the stuff.

In the case of this piano, the felt was indeed simply
compressed, not gone.  (Kawai, manufactured 1987) You
could look at the balance hole and see where the pin
was; instead of a straight line on each side of the
mortise, there was a dent which formed a perfect
circle where the pin was.  It was a deep enough dent
that the keys would rock side to side.  

After applying the liquid, letting it set overnight
with the caul in place, the bushings looked like new. 
Putting them back on the piano, I found I didn't have
to ease any of the bushings, nor did I find any  that
were still too loose. 

Of course, nothing is going to replace felt that has
been worn away.  But if it's simply compressed, like
it was on this piano, it works great.

But even if you're still concerned about glue and
silicone, try it on grand damper bushings.  Those are
usually put in without glue, are they not?   

If anyone is minimally interested in using this
product, but has questions/reservations, why not call
Pianotech and ask for Bob?  He's the one who
discovered it's usefulness in restoring felt bushings,
and has been using it for this kind of application
much longer than I, and will be able to address the
concerns brought up here on the list better than I.

Even with the reservations brought up by the list
regarding the use of silicone in bushings, wouldn't
this still be of use in certain situations?  Take that
Gulbransen spinet.  The owners found it in the garage
of the home they just purchased and want to spruce it
up for Johnny's upcoming piano lessons, but they don't
want to spend too much on it.  If Johnny likes piano
lessons, they'll buy a better piano. The cabinet is
beat up and it's worth less than the cost of a new set
of key bushings.  No one in the future will ever be
rebushing the keys on this piano.  

Normally, I wouldn't even consider addressing the key
bushings in this situation, but my total labor for
restoring the felt with VS Profelt would be much less
than an hour.  Remove the keys, douse the bushings,
insert the key cauls, reinstall the keys the next day,
big improvement in the piano for very little money.

Assuming that the results are not temporary, why not?

Tom Sivak

--- Mike Morvan <keymaestro at verizon.net> wrote:

> Tom,
>     The intention of my reply to your post was not
> to question the 
> "wholeheartedness" of a trusted colleague, nor to
> discount the good 
> intentions of your post and I'm sorry if it came out
> that way. I was simply 
> trying to state some information that I have
> accumulated over the years in 
> dealing with bushings on a daily basis. Please let
> me try a different 
> approach.
>      It has been my experience that  "if a set of
> keys needs balance rail 
> bushings badly, and the sharps rock back and forth
> big time" then they 
> should be replaced. Especially if you factor in the
> quality of cloth these 
> days. If the bushings are worn, they are worn. The
> cloth is eroded and it is 
> not only eroded, it is also GONE. It is not simply
> compressed, it is GONE.
>     Lightly steaming the bushings will give the same
> temporary effect that 
> can be achieved with VS Profelt, without adding the
> damaging properties of 
> embalming the mortises with irremovable silicone.
>     Silicone will impregnate the wood and prevent
> ANY glue from adhering to 
> the mortise in the future, ultimately requiring
> button and mortise 
> replacement, at great expense. Silicone is a big no
> no.
>     It has been my experience (because I used to do
> it) that lightly 
> steaming bushings will swell them a bit and take up
> some slack, but again, 
> the cloth is not only worn and eroded, it is also
> gone, and the cloth will 
> compress back to it's worn state with some use. 
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tom Sivak" <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: key bushing miracle stuff
> 
> 
> > Mike
> >
> > We'll have to see.  Bob at Pianotech says it's not
> > temporary, but the key bushing job I did with it
> was
> > last week, so all I can tell you is that it will
> last
> > at least a week!
> >
> > I should mention that this tip was passed along to
> me
> > from another tech who has been using it longer
> than I.
> > I would assume if it were temporary, he would not
> > have so wholeheartedly recommended the stuff to
> me.
> >
> > Time will tell.
> >
> > Tom Sivak
> >
> > --- Mike Morvan <keymaestro at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Tom,
> >>     There is NO miracle stuff or silver bullets
> in
> >> this business. Lightly
> >> steaming the bushings will give you the same
> >> temporary effect you achieved
> >> with VS Profelt without the damaging properties
> of
> >> embalming the mortises
> >> with irremovable silicone. If the bushings are
> worn
> >> they are worn, the cloth
> >> is eroded. Cloth is very hygroscopic and will
> swell
> >> readily with liquids but
> >> will assume their eroded shape quickly with some
> >> play. It is a very
> >> inexpensive quick fix though. Just my two cents.
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Blackstone Valley piano
> >> Michael A. Morvan
> >> 76 Sutton Street
> >> Uxbridge, Ma 01569
> >> (508) 278-9762
> >> www.pianoandorgankeys.com
> >> www.thepianorebuilders.com
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Tom Sivak" <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net>
> >> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:15 PM
> >> Subject: key bushing miracle stuff
> >>
> >>
> >> > List
> >> >
> >> > It isn't often that I can contribute anything
> that
> >> I
> >> > think worthy of you all.   Perhaps you all know
> >> about
> >> > this VS Profelt stuff, but it's new to me and
> it
> >> has
> >> > saved me two bushing jobs so far.
> >> >
> >> > I had a Kawai vertical that needed new balance
> >> rail
> >> > key bushings, badly.  Sharps especially rocked
> >> back
> >> > and forth, big time.   I removed the keys,
> applied
> >> VS
> >> > Profelt to the bushings, inserted my Spurlock
> >> bushing
> >> > cauls and let them set over night.   Next day,
> the
> >> key
> >> > bushings were perfect.  There was not even any
> >> > variation from one to the next.  They were all
> >> > perfect.
> >> >
> >> > I spoke with Bob at Pianotech and he said that
> it
> >> > relaxes the felt and also contains silicone
> which
> >> > lubricates the felt.  He said he had a set of
> key
> >> > bushings in which some were too tight, and some
> >> were
> >> > too loose, and after an application of this
> stuff,
> >> > they were all PERFECT.
> >> >
> >> > I also used VS Profelt on damper rail guide
> >> bushings
> >> > on a M&H AA in which the dampers were bobbling
> >> side to
> >> > side, forward to back, like little wooden
> >> > jacks-in-the-box.   I applied the liquid, put
> in
> >> > number 8 bridge pins for a "caul", and the next
> >> day,
> >> > voila!  Like new.
> >> >
> >> > This stuff saved me hours of work.   Not only
> are
> >> the
> >> > results great, but I can now make improvements
> on
> >> some
> >> > of my clients' pianos where money is an issue. 
> I
> >> > don't even bring up key bushing replacement on
> >> some
> >> > pianos even if it needs it desperately.   Now,
> I
> >> can
> >> > suggest upgrading the key bushing situation at
> a
> >> more
> >> > reasonable cost.
> >> >
> >> > Tom Sivak
> >> > Chicago
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> 
>