key bushing miracle stuff

[Mike Morvan]

Tom,
    Thanks for clarifying that, your newfound method seems to have some 
place in tidying things up a bit. Again, I think the same effect can be 
achieved with light steaming and cauls and there is no risk of contamination 
with silicone. I don't know exactly what Vs Profelt is, nor do I question 
it's ability or Bob's application methods. Simply put, silicone is a death 
sentence for wood.  Mike

Blackstone Valley piano
Michael A. Morvan
76 Sutton Street
Uxbridge, Ma 01569
(508) 278-9762
www.pianoandorgankeys.com
www.thepianorebuilders.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Sivak" <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: key bushing miracle stuff


> Mike
>
> No offense taken.  I appreciate everyone using their
> expertise and experience to look at this from
> different perspectives.  I think some valid questions
> have been raised here.
>
> Bob at Pianotech says they impregnate all their
> bushing felt with VS Profelt before it goes out the
> door.  I've never had a problem with their felt not
> sticking, although that's different than soaking the
> felt and the mortise with the stuff.
>
> In the case of this piano, the felt was indeed simply
> compressed, not gone.  (Kawai, manufactured 1987) You
> could look at the balance hole and see where the pin
> was; instead of a straight line on each side of the
> mortise, there was a dent which formed a perfect
> circle where the pin was.  It was a deep enough dent
> that the keys would rock side to side.
>
> After applying the liquid, letting it set overnight
> with the caul in place, the bushings looked like new.
> Putting them back on the piano, I found I didn't have
> to ease any of the bushings, nor did I find any  that
> were still too loose.
>
> Of course, nothing is going to replace felt that has
> been worn away.  But if it's simply compressed, like
> it was on this piano, it works great.
>
> But even if you're still concerned about glue and
> silicone, try it on grand damper bushings.  Those are
> usually put in without glue, are they not?
>
> If anyone is minimally interested in using this
> product, but has questions/reservations, why not call
> Pianotech and ask for Bob?  He's the one who
> discovered it's usefulness in restoring felt bushings,
> and has been using it for this kind of application
> much longer than I, and will be able to address the
> concerns brought up here on the list better than I.
>
> Even with the reservations brought up by the list
> regarding the use of silicone in bushings, wouldn't
> this still be of use in certain situations?  Take that
> Gulbransen spinet.  The owners found it in the garage
> of the home they just purchased and want to spruce it
> up for Johnny's upcoming piano lessons, but they don't
> want to spend too much on it.  If Johnny likes piano
> lessons, they'll buy a better piano. The cabinet is
> beat up and it's worth less than the cost of a new set
> of key bushings.  No one in the future will ever be
> rebushing the keys on this piano.
>
> Normally, I wouldn't even consider addressing the key
> bushings in this situation, but my total labor for
> restoring the felt with VS Profelt would be much less
> than an hour.  Remove the keys, douse the bushings,
> insert the key cauls, reinstall the keys the next day,
> big improvement in the piano for very little money.
>
> Assuming that the results are not temporary, why not?
>
> Tom Sivak
>
> --- Mike Morvan <keymaestro at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>     The intention of my reply to your post was not
>> to question the
>> "wholeheartedness" of a trusted colleague, nor to
>> discount the good
>> intentions of your post and I'm sorry if it came out
>> that way. I was simply
>> trying to state some information that I have
>> accumulated over the years in
>> dealing with bushings on a daily basis. Please let
>> me try a different
>> approach.
>>      It has been my experience that  "if a set of
>> keys needs balance rail
>> bushings badly, and the sharps rock back and forth
>> big time" then they
>> should be replaced. Especially if you factor in the
>> quality of cloth these
>> days. If the bushings are worn, they are worn. The
>> cloth is eroded and it is
>> not only eroded, it is also GONE. It is not simply
>> compressed, it is GONE.
>>     Lightly steaming the bushings will give the same
>> temporary effect that
>> can be achieved with VS Profelt, without adding the
>> damaging properties of
>> embalming the mortises with irremovable silicone.
>>     Silicone will impregnate the wood and prevent
>> ANY glue from adhering to
>> the mortise in the future, ultimately requiring
>> button and mortise
>> replacement, at great expense. Silicone is a big no
>> no.
>>     It has been my experience (because I used to do
>> it) that lightly
>> steaming bushings will swell them a bit and take up
>> some slack, but again,
>> the cloth is not only worn and eroded, it is also
>> gone, and the cloth will
>> compress back to it's worn state with some use.
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tom Sivak" <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: key bushing miracle stuff
>>
>>
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > We'll have to see.  Bob at Pianotech says it's not
>> > temporary, but the key bushing job I did with it
>> was
>> > last week, so all I can tell you is that it will
>> last
>> > at least a week!
>> >
>> > I should mention that this tip was passed along to
>> me
>> > from another tech who has been using it longer
>> than I.
>> > I would assume if it were temporary, he would not
>> > have so wholeheartedly recommended the stuff to
>> me.
>> >
>> > Time will tell.
>> >
>> > Tom Sivak
>> >
>> > --- Mike Morvan <keymaestro at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tom,
>> >>     There is NO miracle stuff or silver bullets
>> in
>> >> this business. Lightly
>> >> steaming the bushings will give you the same
>> >> temporary effect you achieved
>> >> with VS Profelt without the damaging properties
>> of
>> >> embalming the mortises
>> >> with irremovable silicone. If the bushings are
>> worn
>> >> they are worn, the cloth
>> >> is eroded. Cloth is very hygroscopic and will
>> swell
>> >> readily with liquids but
>> >> will assume their eroded shape quickly with some
>> >> play. It is a very
>> >> inexpensive quick fix though. Just my two cents.
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Blackstone Valley piano
>> >> Michael A. Morvan
>> >> 76 Sutton Street
>> >> Uxbridge, Ma 01569
>> >> (508) 278-9762
>> >> www.pianoandorgankeys.com
>> >> www.thepianorebuilders.com
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Tom Sivak" <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net>
>> >> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:15 PM
>> >> Subject: key bushing miracle stuff
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > List
>> >> >
>> >> > It isn't often that I can contribute anything
>> that
>> >> I
>> >> > think worthy of you all.   Perhaps you all know
>> >> about
>> >> > this VS Profelt stuff, but it's new to me and
>> it
>> >> has
>> >> > saved me two bushing jobs so far.
>> >> >
>> >> > I had a Kawai vertical that needed new balance
>> >> rail
>> >> > key bushings, badly.  Sharps especially rocked
>> >> back
>> >> > and forth, big time.   I removed the keys,
>> applied
>> >> VS
>> >> > Profelt to the bushings, inserted my Spurlock
>> >> bushing
>> >> > cauls and let them set over night.   Next day,
>> the
>> >> key
>> >> > bushings were perfect.  There was not even any
>> >> > variation from one to the next.  They were all
>> >> > perfect.
>> >> >
>> >> > I spoke with Bob at Pianotech and he said that
>> it
>> >> > relaxes the felt and also contains silicone
>> which
>> >> > lubricates the felt.  He said he had a set of
>> key
>> >> > bushings in which some were too tight, and some
>> >> were
>> >> > too loose, and after an application of this
>> stuff,
>> >> > they were all PERFECT.
>> >> >
>> >> > I also used VS Profelt on damper rail guide
>> >> bushings
>> >> > on a M&H AA in which the dampers were bobbling
>> >> side to
>> >> > side, forward to back, like little wooden
>> >> > jacks-in-the-box.   I applied the liquid, put
>> in
>> >> > number 8 bridge pins for a "caul", and the next
>> >> day,
>> >> > voila!  Like new.
>> >> >
>> >> > This stuff saved me hours of work.   Not only
>> are
>> >> the
>> >> > results great, but I can now make improvements
>> on
>> >> some
>> >> > of my clients' pianos where money is an issue.
>> I
>> >> > don't even bring up key bushing replacement on
>> >> some
>> >> > pianos even if it needs it desperately.   Now,
>> I
>> >> can
>> >> > suggest upgrading the key bushing situation at
>> a
>> >> more
>> >> > reasonable cost.
>> >> >
>> >> > Tom Sivak
>> >> > Chicago
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>