soundboards improving with age? or what else?

[Richard Brekne]

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Delwin D Fandrich wrote:

>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Richard Brekne
>      To: pianotech@ptg.org
>      Sent: June 08, 2001 12:18 PM
>      Subject: Re: soundboards improving with age? or what
>      else?
>
>
>      Bucur, I might add cites the following  factors relative
>      to changes in wood as it ages
>
>      Chemical and physical changes over time with
>      fluctuations of temperature and humidity and effects due
>      to the playing process,  mainly the results of
>      vibrations and static loading.
>
>
> Sigh. I'm certainly glad to know that your expert agrees that
> changes take place in wood as the result of fluctuations of
> temperature and humidity and static loading. While I don't accept
> the notion that there are chemical changes taking place as a
> result of simple aging that will affect the performance of the
> piano--been talked about lots, never proven--there are certainly
> physical and structural changes resulting from static loading and
> from those variations in temperature and humidity that do.
>
Grin... I know you dont aggree Del... and hey.. thats cool. Its one
thing to suppose this, to observe that.. to hypothosize, reason,
conport, and constertate.. to agree or disagree...  its another
thing entirely to declare "I have the answer"

Actually the fellow goes on to say the chemical changes are quite
measureable, and the results predictable. Its all very sensible I am
sure. But as I said... no one has any final proved out complete
description of the piano soundboard in this regard. And to say one
does is...well overstepping the present real knowledge base.

> You're on the right track. Don't stop now!
>
Grin.. Del I have had a lot of such reading  lying around for some
years now.. some read some left to read some to re.read.  The right
track is a questioning one, in my mind. It is wise not to close
oneself completely off from avenues of investigation... no matter
how seemingly unlikely they may be..until there is real proof that
they are useless.

>
> Regards,
>
> Del

and then....

>
>      Perhaps the answer to your question is simply....
>      "because you want it to sound better"  Perhaps its
>      something more tangeable. Maybe there is some aura left
>      from the living tree...grin... or perhaps Del and his
>      camp are right... in which case there is something wrong
>      with your ears... hehe.
>
>      All I know... is what I said at the outset... we dont
>      have the answer to that question yet. Tho undoubtably
>      there are those who are convinced we do... all over the
>      place.
>
> Now why would you say this, Richard? This is precisely what I have
> been saying happens right along. The effect Andre is referring to
> is predictable, understandable, and explainable.
>

Grin... Del you shoulda been a politician.  As you have answered
your own question in nearly the same breath that you posed it... I
will say no more.

>
> Regards,
>
> Del

and finnally:

Of course Andre is hearing what he is hearing. And he is hearing it
accurately. Steinway soundboards are compression-crowned boards.
Over time, with the soundboard loaded, thesoundboard panel is
undergoing fairly continuous changes. It is under compression
across-grain, remember? The wood fibers are taking on
compression-set and the expansion force that formed and maintained
the boards initial crown is dissipating. The board is collapsing. In
the process it is losing some of its stiffness. As  this happens the
piano's sustain time is
decreasing and the tone quality is becoming more percussive. That is
what happens as a soundboard loses its crown.

Regards,

Del

Lets see first you tell him the old panel will sound as good as the
new... then you tell him it wont after all...Lets. see.... sort this
out.. Oh yea.. there was this difference between rib crowned and
compression crowned... but WAIT... the old board was compression
crowned wayyyy back when... it shoulda then suffered badly by
compression set due to these expansion forces collapsing..... how
can that sound the same as a new board that hasnt been subjected to
this... even with rib supports... but then we got that covered too
dont we ??  Its all a matter of stiffness and mass... and nothing
else. And the only thing that affects these is static load
stresses... Heck if we could reconfigure a tomatoe to be as
stiff..... grin...

Look Del... your explanation is as good as anyones...and better then
most in my book. Just dont try selling it as the gospel cause it is
obvious that you havent got all ends completely covered. It remains
a hypothosis.


And now I think we have dragged this one around enough  for the
present... or what ?

--
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
Bergen, Norway
mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no


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