I've used both and the wire diameters are different. I've never been able to figure out if that's a problem or not, more of a tradeoff. The main thing that bothers me with the Tokiwas is the tendency for the color to transfer to the hammer molding. Which makes me whether what Chris mentions about them being synthetic is true. I think it's the leather dye that you see transfer. The Tokiwas may be leather and the Renner backchecks may be synthetic although the replacement backcheck covers material that you buy from Renner is leather. I'd have to look at them again, can't recall. At any rate, they both work. The Tokiwas are easier to regulate as the wire bends more easily (the Renner wire is very stiff). Because the Tokiwas are more malleable they also tend to fold more easily when being pressed in so you have to be more careful to support the wire. The argument for Tokiwa malleability is that it gives a slightly softer checking, on the other hand on a harder blow the checking distance will tend to push a little deeper. As you mention, the Tokiwas are much less expensive. Cost aside, I prefer to use Renner. On some jobs, however, cost is a consideration. On the other issue, it's interesting but I find that the distance that the shanks end up over the rest cushion tends to vary quite a bit on Steinway rebuilds even when the bore distance is correct. I've had situations where you could barely get the shanks off the cushions and situations where there was too much distance and situations where I had to build up the wippen cushions with an extra piece of felt to reduce the distance. In both cases the moving up or down of the stack often doesn't seem like the right thing as other relationships seemed correct so I'm not sure what that's about. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:32 PM To: 'David Ilvedson' Cc: pianotech at ptg.org; caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] 234 Steinway B If the only problem is the backchecks being too high and the wippen felt being too thick (some Steinway elevations create this problem) then just peel a bit of felt off the wippen rest cushion (if they are the Renner type) and either try and lower the back checks by pressing them down using a drill press (though that can be difficult once the backcheck wires are bent) or replace (if the backcheck leather is worn) with a new set of backchecks. They don't have to be the oversized type you only need to be sure that the wire is not too long so that you can press them in without the wire going through the bottom of the key. I usually use Renner or Tokiwa backchecks. The dark brown leather backchecks are older ones but not the original ones and were probably installed some time ago. When the key is fully depressed and prior to let off the top of the backcheck should be no higher than the tip of the hammer tail and preferably the tail should be a mm or two higher than the top of the backcheck. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: David Ilvedson [mailto:ilvey at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:51 PM To: davidlovepianos at comcast.net Subject: 234 Steinway B List, I'm working with a older Steinway B...new action. I've have been trying to figure what is with the action...? What I found is the blow distance is maybe 44 mm/approximately. Hammers on the wippen felts (tapping behind the balance rail makes no hammer movement, moving jack makes no hammer movement). Aftertouch is plenty. I thought about removing some wippen felt, but the hammers (especially in the tenor) are touching or nearly touching the backchecks. There are brown marks on tenor hammers where they are impacting the backchecks. So it seems the backchecks are too high...when I depress a key fully the backcheck is higher than the bottom of the tail, maybe 5 or 6 mm. I can't regulate the blow distance to specs without removing wippen fellt and then the hammers will be on the backchecks. This seems mostly in the tenor...but close through out... I went ahead, temporarily and raised the capstans slightly so I could regulate wippen height, align jacks...most too far under the knuckle, just to see if I could improve the action response...a little better. How would I lower the backchecks...seem like cowhide (brown rough leather)? I remember a technique of using a drill press to push the backchecks farther down on the wire? Maybe new backchecks with good buckskin would be a good idea? If new, should they be Steinway style...bigger? The hammer tails might be longer than regular Steinway hammers? Thanks in advance for any advice... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut_ptg.org/attachments/20090419/53bd5e03/attachment-0001.html>
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