[CAUT] Hardness of termination vs string breakage (was Re: restrung D)

Alan McCoy amccoy at mail.ewu.edu
Mon Apr 23 18:47:50 MDT 2007


Hi Ted,

Pardon my thick-headedness. If a #40 drill has a .097" diameter, wouldn't
that mean that it has a radius of .0485". If you like a capo with a radius
of (2.5mm or ) .098", wouldn't a #9 drill that has a diameter of .195"
(r=.0975"), then be a better visual reference for a radius of .098"?

Am I missing something, or when is a radius not a radius?

Alan 


> From: Ted Sambell <edward.sambell at sympatico.ca>
> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:21:19 -0400
> To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Hardness of termination vs string breakage (was Re:
> restrung D)
> 
> 
> Alan, you are close enough. 2.5mm converts to .098" Agraffes are generally
> close to this too. A #40 twist drill has a diameter of .097, which will give
> a good visual idea of the radius. One thousanth of an inch or so is
> certainly a permissible tolerence
> 
> Ted Sambell
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan McCoy" <amccoy at mail.ewu.edu>
> To: <caut at ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Hardness of termination vs string breakage (was Re:
> restrung D)
> 
> 
>> Ric,
>> 
>> Would you mind quantifying "thin" and "sharp" for me? Ted Sambell talked
>> about a 2.5mm radius, which works out to 0.1" or between a sixteenth and
>> an
>> eighth inch radius (for metric-phobes).
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> -- Alan McCoy, RPT
>> Eastern Washington University
>> amccoy at mail.ewu.edu
>> 509-359-4627
>> 
>> 
>>> From: RicB <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
>>> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>"
>>> <caut at ptg.org>
>>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:46:46 +0100
>>> To: <caut at ptg.org>
>>> Subject: [CAUT] Hardness of termination vs string breakage (was Re:
>>> restrung
>>> D)
>>> 
>>> String breakage at the capo is more complicated then just one bit.  I
>>> have a 9 foot Petrof under my care with the same feature (actually a
>>> pretty good one in my book as well...)  The <<soft>> capo sharpened will
>>> indeed groove over time... but if other issues such as speaking length
>>> of the string and counterbearing angle are compatible with the soft,
>>> sharp capo... then whatever trouble you have with string breakage must
>>> find its roots elsewhere.  I havent seen a broken string on this Petrof
>>> (strangely enough) for over 18 months except in the bass and agraffe
>>> sections... and its played hard 6 days a week 10 months of the year.
>>> Three quarter medium strike weights for what thats worth.
>>> 
>>> Each instrument is different to be sure, but by and large most whose
>>> experiences I have listened to through the years have reported fairly
>>> consisitently that thin, sharp, and soft works much better over time
>>> then wide round and soft.
>>> 
>>> Again... I suggest reading McMorrow for some interesting perspectives on
>>> exactly this subject matter.  I agree tho... the proof is in the
>>> pudding.  I've been handling capos as mentioned in earlier posts for
>>> well 25 years now... and have had ample opportunity and more to watch
>>> the results over time.  Petrofs and Bosies are not, definitely not
>>> proverbial high treble string breakers.  God knows Petrofs have problems
>>> they need working out... but this is not one of them.  Not in my
>>> experience anyways.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> RicB
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     With all due respect. I had an experience several years ago with a
>>>     Bosendorfer grand which seems to contradict this. It continually
>>> broke
>>>     strings in the top section. Bosendorfer, and I believe Petrof have
>>>     retained
>>>     a feature found in early 19th. century pianos such as Streicher and
>>>     Erard,
>>>     namely, a removable treble capo bar. I removed this and found it to
>>>     have a
>>>     very sharp edge, and to be badly grooved, the edges of the grooves
>>>     still as
>>>     sharp as the unworn arears. The metal was quite soft , so I was able
>>> to
>>>     easily reshape it to the radius resembling that of a 2.5mm rod, and
>>>     polish
>>>     it. I then re-strung the section  (actually the two top sections)
>>>     and there
>>>     has never been a broken string since over many years. The piano is
>>> used
>>>     quite heavily by good pianists. Moreover, if anything, the tone was
>>>     better
>>>     than before. A vibrating string is quite evidently being stretched at
>>>     amplitude . and the consequent lengthening is offset by the
>>> alternating
>>>     termination point caused by the deflection of the wire around the
>>>     radius of
>>>     the bar. As is said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
>>> 
>>>     Ted Sambell---- Original Message -----
>>>     From: "RicB" <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
>>>     To: <caut at ptg.org>
>>>     Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:00 AM
>>>     Subject: [CAUT] Hardness of termination vs string breakage (was Re:
>>>     restrung
>>>     D)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> It is a matter of all these things, including hardness. Really,
>>>     this kind
>>>> of goes without saying.  A soft sharp profile will wear and
>>>     groove, and it
>>>> will do so in a way that works out nicely over time.  A rounded soft
>>>> profile on the other hand will buzz like crazy with wear.  Dig out
>>>> McMorrows book for some good perspectives on it.
>>>> 
>>>> Fred,  there is friction at the bridge pin from something... this is
>>>> obvious because of the pins getting damaged over time. If the
>>>     metal of the
>>>> pin was significantly harder then the string... these same
>>>     moments would
>>>> still be at work and the wear and tear would be transfered to the
>>>     string
>>>> material.
>>>> I mean... why would we have any use for super hard abrasives like
>>>     diamond
>>>> files or any such thing unless the basic idea that harder vs softer
>>>> results in softer loosing ?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> RicB
>>>     -- 
>>> 
> 




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