Pinning and Tone

[Alan McCoy]

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MessageThanks Don,

In part what I am trying to get at here is distinguishing between friction
and firmness in the bushing. Can you hear the tonal difference between a
note that has a friction problem vs one that has a firmness problem?

My normal procedure in reconditioning an action includes checking action
center friction, duh, and I check side to side play gang-style checking for
winking hammers, but I'm looking around to see if someone has figured out a
way to systematically check for both friction and firmness in an efficient
way (ie without painstakingly removing every flange!!)

Alan

PS Bob, Sending them to Marcia is cheating! :-)   Hope things are great down
there in Modesto.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Don
Mannino
  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:11 AM
  To: caut@ptg.org
  Subject: FW: Pinning and Tone


  Alan,

  The tone of the piano can be the best gauge, as poor pinning has a pretty
distinctive sound to it.  I would describe it as a thin and weak tone.
Checking the friction level in a thin sounding note, repinning it, and
listening will tell you a lot.

  Experience is the best teacher here.  I don't have a specification to tell
you, except firm enough by feel and a good solid tone by ear.  I suppose the
engineers could give you a spec, though.  X amount of deflection with Y
amount of force applied Z distance from the pin.

  Don Mannino


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Alan McCoy [mailto:amccoy@mail.ewu.edu]
  Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:24 PM
  To: College and University Technicians
  Subject: RE: Pinning and Tone


    Hi Bob,

    Well OK. Thing of it is, do you know the specs here. How much deflection
per how much side pressure? I'm guessing that the only test people really
use to check side play is the old screwdriver blade, or brass rod, under the
shanks gang style to check for winking hammers indicating a loose center pin
bushing. This is a good test, but it is neither definitive nor quantitative,
right? Also, whether a loose center shows up on this test depends in part on
how smooth the rod is as well as how loose a bushing is.

    Do you have a different method to test for firmness of bushings?

    Alan McCoy
      -----Original Message-----
      From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of
BobDavis88@aol.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:21 PM
      To: caut@ptg.org
      Subject: Re: Pinning and Tone


      In a message dated 10/15/2003 11:33:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
amccoy@mail.ewu.edu writes:


        But how does one test for firmness in any
        quantitative, definitive way?



      I'd say with side play. That's what Steinway is doing in addition to
friction measurement: measuring the amount of deflection with a known amount
of side pressure. Same objection - it only measures both sides at once, but
it provides a go - no-go gauge.

      Bob Davis

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