Pinning and Tone

[Horace Greeley]

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Hi, Alan,

At 09:29 AM 10/22/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks Don,
>
>In part what I am trying to get at here is distinguishing between friction 
>and firmness in the bushing. Can you hear the tonal difference between a 
>note that has a friction problem vs one that has a firmness problem?

Yes - please see my earlier post with examples (10.Oct.03).

Lance also makes an important observation in re: noise - (paraphrased) that 
it is often much less obvious farther away than up close.  I would go a 
step farther and suggest that damping out too much of what might be thought 
of as noise can be counterproductive.  I have heard many relatively "clean" 
pianos that simply did not carry, depending on many things, of course, out 
into a venue.

>My normal procedure in reconditioning an action includes checking action 
>center friction, duh, and I check side to side play gang-style checking 
>for winking hammers, but I'm looking around to see if someone has figured 
>out a way to systematically check for both friction and firmness in an 
>efficient way (ie without painstakingly removing every flange!!)

Yes - please.

>
>Alan
>
>PS Bob, Sending them to Marcia is cheating! :-)   Hope things are great 
>down there in Modesto.

Hmmm - well, sending to Marcia may be cheating, but it also might be very 
good business practice.

Best.

Horace


>-----Original Message-----
>From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Don 
>Mannino
>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:11 AM
>To: caut@ptg.org
>Subject: FW: Pinning and Tone
>
>Alan,
>
>The tone of the piano can be the best gauge, as poor pinning has a pretty 
>distinctive sound to it.  I would describe it as a thin and weak 
>tone.  Checking the friction level in a thin sounding note, repinning it, 
>and listening will tell you a lot.
>
>Experience is the best teacher here.  I don't have a specification to tell 
>you, except firm enough by feel and a good solid tone by ear.  I suppose 
>the engineers could give you a spec, though.  X amount of deflection with 
>Y amount of force applied Z distance from the pin.
>
>Don Mannino
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan McCoy [mailto:amccoy@mail.ewu.edu]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:24 PM
>To: College and University Technicians
>Subject: RE: Pinning and Tone
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Well OK. Thing of it is, do you know the specs here. How much deflection 
>per how much side pressure? I'm guessing that the only test people really 
>use to check side play is the old screwdriver blade, or brass rod, under 
>the shanks gang style to check for winking hammers indicating a loose 
>center pin bushing. This is a good test, but it is neither definitive nor 
>quantitative, right? Also, whether a loose center shows up on this test 
>depends in part on how smooth the rod is as well as how loose a bushing is.
>
>Do you have a different method to test for firmness of bushings?
>
>Alan McCoy
>-----Original Message-----
>From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of 
>BobDavis88@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:21 PM
>To: caut@ptg.org
>Subject: Re: Pinning and Tone
>
>In a message dated 10/15/2003 11:33:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
>amccoy@mail.ewu.edu writes:
>
>>But how does one test for firmness in any
>>quantitative, definitive way?
>
>
>I'd say with side play. That's what Steinway is doing in addition to 
>friction measurement: measuring the amount of deflection with a known 
>amount of side pressure. Same objection - it only measures both sides at 
>once, but it provides a go - no-go gauge.
>
>Bob Davis

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