[pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old plates.....

[steve at stevejacksonpianos.com]

Water based will always react with the bronzing powder.

Steve

> I can't speak to other people's experience, but years ago I had used a water
> based clear lacquer over my gold and had adhesion problems.
>
> Will Truitt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
> Of Douglas Gregg
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:28 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old
> plates.....
>
> Several suggestions on plate reconditioning.
>
> I agree with Euphonious that plates can be cleaned and come out looking
> almost new with the right cleaner. I found that Dow Scrubbing Bubbles
> Bathroom aerosol cleaner works wonders and does not require soaking the
> plate, pins or soundboard. Also, it has not color dye added so no problem
> there. I have used this on every hard surface of a piano and also the felt
> with no problem. Not sure about leather and hammers.
>
>  I think I wrote this up before for this forum and have submitted it to
> TT&T. The bubbles work very fast and float all the brown stuff off the plate
> in seconds. I am pretty sure it is not the shellac but tobacco tar and
> nicotine because I can smell it as it comes off. I do use a dusting 4 inch
> nylon paint brush and a vacuum before the scrubbing bubbles just to decrease
> the volume of grunge to mop up.
> this goes for the soundboard too. It is also hard to blow the wet wads of
> lint and dirt. This goes for the soundboard too. For the soundboard, it is
> better to tip the piano up and use gravity as well as the blower to blow the
> bubbles down to a rag at the rim.  You can wipe it up or blow it to a corner
> and mop it up. I use a Metro Vac on blower mode and blow the foam to a
> convenient corner and have a rag there to absorb it. With the Metro vac
> blower, everything comes out nearly dry just like those high powered hand
> dryers in the restrooms.
>
> For between the pins, the scrubbing bubbles work best with a 4 inch stiff
> nylon cheap paint brush to loosen the dirt. Brush it to the front corner and
> blow it into a rag. You will be amazed how well it works. It does not have
> enough liquid to soak into the pin block. I am talking about a 30 second
> exposure to the bubbles.
>
> I use Sharpie brand black paint markers from Michael's craft store for
> lettering. They are toluene solvent based and work well. You can use the
> Sharpie paint last to avoid any bleeding. It is glossy.
>
> Otherwise, if you are having trouble with the clear coat taking off your
> marker or bleeding it, try a water based clear. I have used System 3 two
> part clear marine coat on a couple pianos and it is a nice high gloss
> finish. It can be brushed, but spraying is better. It can be thinned a bit
> to brush or spray better. Jamestown Marine Supply carries it on line. They
> ship very fast. You can still top coat it with a solvent based finish on top
> of the water based if you want to but why bother.
>
> Come to my French Polishing seminar in Seattle. That is a Shameless plug.
>
> The Adhesives presentation was scrubbed but will be presented here soon. You
> will be surprised at some of the test results comparing adhesives.
>
> Doug Gregg
> Classic Piano Doc
> Southold, NY
>
>
> To: Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp at yahoo.com>; pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 9:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old
> plates.....
>
>
> Thumpmeister ,
>    The man has returned!
> How about a bit of shameless marketing with that felt cutter? Show it off
> and post a price. This is your target market group.
>      Best wishes,
>  Tom Driscoll
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From:   Euphonious   Thumpe
>
> To: joegarrett at earthlink.net ; pianotech at ptg.org
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:08   PM
>
> Subject: [pianotech] Thumpe returns...   and the shellac on old plates.....
>
>
>
>
>
> To Most Esteemed High Captain of Tool Police, De-Luxe:
>
>
>
>   Hast been off-list for 2.5 years because yahoo started   bouncing
> these posts ( probably because I had about 50,000 emails backed up in  my
> inbox) and then the Pianotech server apparently got fed up and
> evicted me.   But after I cleared my inbox, repeated entreaties to be
> put back   were ignored. ( Because of some personal animosity on the
> part of the   then-moderator?) But I tried again last week
> and......VOILA! Glad to be   back!!! ( And a
> super-extra-special-big-thanx to whomever it is who let me   rejoin!
> THANK YOU!!!)
>
>
>
>     On to bizness: dab some denatured alcohol   on an old plate and
> see what happens. (Only shellac melts with it, as I'm sure   you
> know.) Actually, I never did this; but surmised it was shellac because
> I   use "Purple Power" (diluted) to clean old plates. ("Super-Clean"
> clone--- but   without the lye in it "Super-Clean" now apparently has,
> that leaves   a stink behind ---- consider yourself warned!) And
> noticed that what came   off LOOKED like old shellac. (Dark orange-
> brown stuff, leaving the plate   bright-and-shiny gold colored.) I've
> also used such cleaners on old shellac,   and they do, in fact,
> dissolve it. (But leave a tinge because of the   purple dye in them,
> if used on wood. So am about to try some stuff---   "Spray-66" has
> been recommended --- from a restuarant supply store, because it   has
> far less dye.) In light concentrations, these concentrated soaps will
> just   clean the dirt off old plates. Slightly heavier, they will
> remove the   dirt and some of the sh
>  ellac. Full strength, they will take everything   off right on down
> to the black "Japaning". ( Which I believe is a form of   coal-tar
> emulsion, or asphalt.) I also have a very intelligent acquaintance who
> agrees with me completely about shellac having been used as the
> vehicle   for the bronzing, after coming to the same conclusion
> indepoendently. (   And shellac does not get brittle for weeks after
> applying.) He says he has had   great results by attempting to
> replicate this plate-finishing method,   but I'd like to find a
> "modern" substitute that works as well. (So I'm   now off to read the
> last week's posts. Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!)
>
>
>
> Much Peace,
>
> Euphonious Thumpe
>
>
>
> P.S. (By the Grace of God) I've devised a felt cutter that is super-accurate
> (to thousandths), quick ( I can cut a set of backchecks
> from a   strip in about 3 minutes) and uses replaceable blades. I may
> start   producing and selling them, or do it through collaboration
> with one of   the supply houses.
>
> P.P.S In my small, low production, one-man shop, I've generally used
> Pianotek's spray cans for plate "gilding", but have found DEFT in
> spray cans   to be by far the best top coat to use, because it does
> not disturb the   bronzing anywhere  nearly as much as all the other
> top-coats I've   tried.
>
>
>