[pianotech] Teflon

[William Monroe]

Gordon,

I've only one thing to suggest that you should be more careful about and it
is this statement you made:

"As a final note; please allow me to mention that enough of my friends in
this trade have died young and/or from ailments that could easily be
attributed to the chemicals involved...."

To which I would say they could easily be attributed to other things in
their life too.  The chemicals may indeed have played a role, and they may
not.  But you cannot link the two with authority.  A fabulous admonition
came from Mark Schechter on the other list regarding another issue, but the
sentiment is equally valid here.  Please do not mistake association for
causation.  They may have died young, and they also used chemicals.  That
doesn't mean that the chemicals caused it.  For an example to the converse,
George Burns smoked and drank all his life and lived to be just over 100
years old.  Applying the same logic here tells us we should all smoke and
drink and we'll live to be 100.

Understand, I'm not arguing your position to be cautious with
chemicals/materials used, or to think more broadly about the implications
of using said chemicals.  But when you make these claims of causation with
such authority, you undermine your your own position significantly.

I would suggest to you that you need to consider this phrase I picked up
recently, "He who thinks he has all the pieces of the puzzle, will be most
suprised when he fails to get the Big Picture."  It goes both ways.

;-]

My 2 cents.

William R. Monroe





On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp at yahoo.com>wrote:

> There are other issues besides one's personal health: such as the
> morphology of the stuff, and effect upon those who produce it and live
> where it is made. (And Dupont has already been very heavily fined for
> hiding information it knew about dangers in these regards.) But some of us
> feel obligated to consider such things,
> and others don't. (And we'll all face God's judgment in the end.) But the
> belittling sarcasm and ridicule heaped upon we who choose to have a greater
> sense of social responsibility beyond our personal monetary bottom line is
> quite snide and offensive, and counterproductive to any sense of progress
> and conviviality on this list. And when it is engaged in in a "ganging up"
> manner, actually exposes a sense of insecurity on the "gang members" over
> something.
>
> Gordon Lee Stelter
>
> P.S. And in this regard ( Ron): no, fff pumice does not dissolve Buicks. I
> used it to nicely clean the mildew off the 1950 Roadmaster 72R (extended
> wheebase) I hauled out of a backyard years ago. (Teeth and all!) Neither
> does it make one's legs fall off. It does though (and I knew this
> beforehand: did not need to research it anew) cause
> pneumonoultramicroscopicsilocovolcanoconiosis if inhaled in adequate
> quantity. (Please wear a dust mask.)
> As a final note; please allow me to mention that enough of my friends in
> this trade have died young and/or from ailments that could easily be
> attributed to the chemicals involved (including the late, great, Harvey N.
> Roehl, of liver cancer, publisher of Reblitz's books) that I am immune to
> implications that I'm insane or not
> "man enough" if I don't subject myself to hazardous methods and substances
> unprotected. I also recognize that many "real men" become exceedingly
> uncomfortable if another man (especially a stranger) expresses concern for
> their health and well being. (Several of my friends, who died or became
> quite ill from things I warned them about, and "poo-pooed" me, fit this
> category.) To these, I say: "Please just imagine that it has nothing at all
> to do with some magnanimous concern for your health: Gordon is simply
> concerned with having to face God's judgment, and whether he adequately
> warned people of things that may bring them great suffering, in advance."
> (Perhaps that will comfort you.)
>
> There is an astonishing breadth of wisdom and knowledge amongst members,
> on matters tangible and intangible, on this list. (And at least one member
> who is a "Hare Ksna" with whom I have communicated.)
> I would hope thatr we can all remain nin awe of this fact, without
> meanness.
> Old Chinese Proverb. (That "came to me" yesterday.)
>
> "He who thinks he has all the pieces of the puzzle, will be most suprised
> when he fails to get the Big Picture."
>
> (I.e. Though one may have developed a large body of refined knowledge on a
> specific subject, it remains foolish to consider oneself superior to
> others, merely on account of it.)
>
>  ------------------------------
> * From: * John Formsma <formsma at gmail.com>;
> * To: * <pianotech at ptg.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [pianotech] Teflon
> * Sent: * Tue, Aug 28, 2012 4:17:59 PM
>
>   Doug,
>
> Good info, particularly from someone who is trained to know about this
> sort of thing. Thanks.
>
> Yes, embarrassing when it's our own folks who propagate the
> misinformation. Intelligence is not a prerequisite for this line of work.
>
> I don't snort it either, and try to avoid the dust...like I try to avoid
> any dust. I certainly don't obsess over it.
>
> --
> John Formsma, RPT
> Blue Mountain, MS
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Douglas Gregg <classicpianodoc at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>> I am not sure where you are finding your information on Teflon. As
>> long as you don't heat it (as in a fry pan) over 440 degrees F, it is
>> quite safe. Teflon is used extensively in medical implants because it
>> has bee shown to be completely non-reactive in the body.
>>
>> As a pathologist, I have never seen or heard of any cases of
>> inhalation pneumonitis resulting from Teflon powder inhalation.
>>
>> I did a Medline search just to see if there were any reports of
>> pneumonitis from the use or production of Teflon powder. I got zero
>> hits. Clearly, I am not recommending snorting Teflon powder, but in
>> normal daily use with reasonable care, it is safe.
>>
>> * The only hits on google are from this PTG forum. That is embarrassing.*
>>
>> Douglas Gregg
>> Classic Piano Doc
>> Veterinary pathologist- retired
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 21:18:37 -0400
>> From: Joe Wiencek <joespiano at gmail.com>
>> To: pianotech at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Teflon
>> Message-ID: <A1E33FFD-D1D2-45D5-AF19-9DBFF5521282 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> I don't think you can bring up this subject enough.  I don't believe
>> the manufacturer is the best source to trust on the safety of ANY
>> chemical or food product.  It's not in their commercial interest. The
>> form that piano technicians use most, the microfine teflon powder, or
>> any fine powder for that matter can settle in the lungs and be
>> extremely difficult to remove.
>>
>> If you want to understand how fluoride became ubiquitous in dental
>> health and municipal water supplies all over, do a bit of research on
>> weapons manufacturers that had a very nasty and toxic by-product they
>> didn't know how to dispose of.  But don't go to the ADA or mainstream
>> media for that info, because you won't find it there.
>>
>> Joe Wiencek
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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