Lim, I've found that many Kawai grands have serious stability issues in the treble, the SK-7s that I've tuned are no exception. To tune these pianos so that they're stable, you may need to experiment with some alternative pin setting techniques. The ruling speculation (I believe) is that the wire doesn't move under the capo bar in the desired way--you probably have too much tension in your front duplex section from pulling the strings up. When a Shigeru Kawai MP visited our college to tune up our four Shigeru pianos, I asked him about the issue. His solution was the pull the notes incredibly sharp, then pound the HELL out of them until they went down--which they did! Until you get the hang of adjusting your technique for these beasts, expect to make at least two passes in the treble to get it to stay where you want. I hope that helps at least a little bit... -Ben Ben Gac, RPT Ben's Piano Tuning (708) 488-1450 - office (630) 291-5654 - mobile Ben at BensPianoTuning.com www.BensPianoTuning.com ----------------------- Hi When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. Regards Lim Ben Gac, RPT Ben's Piano Tuning (630) 291-5654 - cell (708) 488-1450 - office Ben at BensPianoTuning.com www.BensPianoTuning.com -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-request at ptg.org Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:43:58 To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Reply-To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 23, Issue 90 Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: YC Capo Bars (John Delacour) 2. Re: YC Capo Bars (William Truitt) 3. Tuning stability problem (limhseng at gmail.com) 4. Re: Piano Order Junk Mail (Stephen Grattan) 5. Re: Tuning stability problem (Paul McCloud) 6. Re: Tuning stability problem (limhseng at gmail.com) 7. Re: Tuning stability problem (Gerald Groot) 8. Re: Piano Order Junk Mail (Brian Trout) 9. Re: Piano Order Junk Mail (paul bruesch) 10. Re: Tuning stability problem (J Patrick Draine) 11. Re: Piano Order Junk Mail (Larry Fisher RPT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:44:33 +0100 From: John Delacour <JD at Pianomaker.co.uk> To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] YC Capo Bars Message-ID: <p06240806c8be10be2164@[192.168.1.64]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 22:48 -0500 20/9/10, Ron Nossaman wrote: >...The string moves the bridge, and the bridge moves the soundboard, >which moves all the strings, etc. The less one dwells on presumed >mystical vibrational energy waves, the closer one gets to observed >and measurable results... On your side you have the Flat Earth Society and maybe the Pope; on the other the whole body of scientific literature concerning mechanical elasticity and acoustics. JD ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:10:43 -0400 From: "William Truitt" <surfdog at metrocast.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] YC Capo Bars Message-ID: <002a01cb5975$4039b300$c0ad1900$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have heard the glue line argument from others against the use of horizontally laminated bridge caps because of the barrier of the glue line. I'm not equipped with the knowledge or scientific tools to advance the argument on either side. But I would follow up what Del said where in testing they couldn't hear the difference between the three kinds of caps by saying that - if the glue lines do indeed interrupt or distort the movement of the vibratory energy, such changes to the patterns of movement are insignificantly small at best and inaudible (if we are to believe Del and Baldwin's testing). As such, the most we can say about this glue line argument is that it is no more than trivially true and therefore of no practical consideration in the real making of piano bridges. And other considerations such as consistency and tuning stability can reasonably be held to be far more important if one is choosing between a horizontal cap or other methods. We regularly hear people asserting that they can hear the influence of certain materials or particular aspects of a design in a piano. I think it is true that for some things that we can. (say the effects of excessive downbearing for example). But it is also true that it is damn difficult to isolate the effect of a particular element from everything else that is influencing the tone, and there's the rub. Will -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of John Delacour Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:45 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] YC Capo Bars At 22:48 -0500 20/9/10, Ron Nossaman wrote: >...The string moves the bridge, and the bridge moves the soundboard, >which moves all the strings, etc. The less one dwells on presumed >mystical vibrational energy waves, the closer one gets to observed >and measurable results... On your side you have the Flat Earth Society and maybe the Pope; on the other the whole body of scientific literature concerning mechanical elasticity and acoustics. JD ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 01:33:35 +0000 From: limhseng at gmail.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Message-ID: <70986793-1285065036-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1400776961- at bda084.bisx.prodap.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb18030" Hi When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. Regards Lim Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld Powered by Gee! from StarHub ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:09:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Grattan <lostchordclinic at ameritech.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail Message-ID: <426654.6896.qm at web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I get these requests as a music/piano retailer. I do not believe it has anything to do with this list. Steve Grattan Lost Chord Clinic ________________________________ From: "pianotek2000 at aol.com" <pianotek2000 at aol.com> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 1:30:55 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail You are not the only one to get this message. I rarely respond to posts on this forum for professionall reasons, but it's quite obvious the subscribers to this forum were targeted. The operative question, therefore, is how did they get this list. This is not a criticism of the PTG because I believe the PTG forum is managed to the best possible within their resources. But, the question remains and I hope will be resolved. The immediate answer by some willl be, it's not that difficult if you follow the forum. For the benefit of those concerned, however, I was targeted and have not contributed to this forum for several years so the ability of this source to find my e-mail address deserves some investigation. Pianotech -----Original Message----- From: Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Mon, Sep 20, 2010 6:25 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail Dog gone - sound like you are going to beat me to this unique business opportunity! Shame on me! ;-) Terry Farrell On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft wrote: I got the same request this morning. If you can't fill this order, let me know. I've got 3 all tuned, voiced and ready to go. > >Al - >High Point, NC >From: Terry Farrell >>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 4:32 PM >>To: pianotech at ptg.org >>Subject: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail >> >>Am I the only one that received the following email? >> >> >>Dear sir/madam, >> Good morning,my name is Alfred White and i am sending these email to make an >>inquiry of some piano,which i will like you to get a price on the Yamaha Baby >>Grand Piano with black polished. Can i get the total cost for 3 pianos plus tax >>and without shipping and also i want to know when you can have all the pianos >>ready for me to arrange for the pickup.I also like to know the form of payment >>you do accept,i will be Waiting for your reply to proceed on with the order >>Thank you and also stay bless. >>I wish you the Best Regards all the time. >>Alfred White >> >> >> >> >>What is this? I suppose he will need my bank account numbers and be able to >>write a check for $200,000 over the invoice amount with the balance to him in >>cash. Geesh!!! :-( >> >> >>Terry Farrell = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100921/f33111b0/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:19:06 -0700 From: "Paul McCloud" <pmc033 at earthlink.net> To: "limhseng at gmail.com," <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Message-ID: <380-22010922111196875 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Lim: I've not seen any stability problems with pianos on stage trucks (trolly). You might try tightening the bolts, but I don't see how a stage truck would alter the tuning. You might look at other factors like temperature changes or air movement over the piano as you tune. Is there direct sun on the piano? Stage lights? Did you move the piano just before tuning? I've not tuned one of these, so I couldn't comment on how they tune. Some Kawai pianos are challenging to tune, hard to dial in unisons, etc. Maybe Don Mannino can jump in here. (SK-7 is Shugeru Kawai, no?) Paul McCloud San Diego > [Original Message] > From: <limhseng at gmail.com> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Date: 09/21/2010 4:00:01 AM > Subject: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem > > Hi > When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. > > Regards > Lim > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > Powered by Gee! from StarHub ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:29:54 +0000 From: limhseng at gmail.com To: pmc033 at earthlink.net,pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Message-ID: <991976827-1285068406-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-664595713- at bda084.bisx.prodap.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Paul Its a Kawai SK7. The tuning pins are good and the piano is well kept in an a/c environment. It is use in a concert hall setting. Lim Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld Powered by Gee! from StarHub -----Original Message----- From: "Paul McCloud" <pmc033 at earthlink.net> Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:19:06 To: limhseng at gmail.com,<pianotech at ptg.org> Reply-To: pmc033 at earthlink.net, pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Hi, Lim: I've not seen any stability problems with pianos on stage trucks (trolly). You might try tightening the bolts, but I don't see how a stage truck would alter the tuning. You might look at other factors like temperature changes or air movement over the piano as you tune. Is there direct sun on the piano? Stage lights? Did you move the piano just before tuning? I've not tuned one of these, so I couldn't comment on how they tune. Some Kawai pianos are challenging to tune, hard to dial in unisons, etc. Maybe Don Mannino can jump in here. (SK-7 is Shugeru Kawai, no?) Paul McCloud San Diego > [Original Message] > From: <limhseng at gmail.com> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Date: 09/21/2010 4:00:01 AM > Subject: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem > > Hi > When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. > > Regards > Lim > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > Powered by Gee! from StarHub ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:02:46 -0400 From: "Gerald Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> To: <limhseng at gmail.com>, <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Message-ID: <001c01cb5984$e894c490$b9be4db0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We've got 2 Steinway D's, a Bose 9', Many Steinway B's and others brands, all setting on trucks at my college. I have no problem with stability during tuning with any of them related to the piano dollies. 2 years ago, we had one really old, original truck on a D start to bend, as if it was about ready to give way. The outter inside edges of one wheel were nearly touching the ground yet, no instability. We replaced the truck but still, nothing changed. On the other hand, I have had issues with tuning changes during lighting tests (lights can be hot!) however and/or when they turn the air on which sometimes blows right onto the piano. I would be more inclined to suspect something like this as an issue or moving it around on an unlevel floor maybe. Jer -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of limhseng at gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:30 PM To: pmc033 at earthlink.net; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Thanks Paul Its a Kawai SK7. The tuning pins are good and the piano is well kept in an a/c environment. It is use in a concert hall setting. Lim Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld Powered by Gee! from StarHub -----Original Message----- From: "Paul McCloud" <pmc033 at earthlink.net> Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:19:06 To: limhseng at gmail.com,<pianotech at ptg.org> Reply-To: pmc033 at earthlink.net, pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Hi, Lim: I've not seen any stability problems with pianos on stage trucks (trolly). You might try tightening the bolts, but I don't see how a stage truck would alter the tuning. You might look at other factors like temperature changes or air movement over the piano as you tune. Is there direct sun on the piano? Stage lights? Did you move the piano just before tuning? I've not tuned one of these, so I couldn't comment on how they tune. Some Kawai pianos are challenging to tune, hard to dial in unisons, etc. Maybe Don Mannino can jump in here. (SK-7 is Shugeru Kawai, no?) Paul McCloud San Diego > [Original Message] > From: <limhseng at gmail.com> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Date: 09/21/2010 4:00:01 AM > Subject: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem > > Hi > When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. > > Regards > Lim > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > Powered by Gee! from StarHub ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 07:26:27 -0500 From: Brian Trout <brian_trout at hotmail.com> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail Message-ID: <SNT134-w27CE02974850FA982815638E7F0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It would be quite interesting to see what kind of operation is going on here, how it's done, where the pianos actually go, what financial transactions take place, whether or not they use their own movers, etc. What about serial numbers? And would they go so far as to put the pianos in a shipping container, insure it, and "inadvertantly" destroy it for the insurance money? It's pretty obvious that "Alfred" doesn't speak good English so it makes me think that at least the money part of it is going offshore. On second thought, do they ever even pick up the pianos? I just think it would be interesting to see how something like this works. Then again, the FBI probably knows all about it... Dear sir/madam, Good morning,my name is Alfred White and i am sending these email to make an inquiry of some piano,which i will like you to get a price on the Yamaha Baby Grand Piano with black polished. Can i get the total cost for 3 pianos plus tax and without shipping and also i want to know when you can have all the pianos ready for me to arrange for the pickup.I also like to know the form of payment you do accept,i will be Waiting for your reply to proceed on with the order Thank you and also stay bless. I wish you the Best Regards all the time. Alfred White = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100921/98478c72/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:00:14 -0500 From: paul bruesch <paul at bruesch.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail Message-ID: <AANLkTik_h59BpTBQyCz_XPpp5=pKdygLqu6nRbHNOrLW at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anyone can subscribe to this list, and anyone who's subscribed can access the list's addresses. I haven't received the solicitation. Paul On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:30 AM, <pianotek2000 at aol.com> wrote: > > You are not the only one to get this message. I rarely respond to posts on > this forum for professionall reasons, but it's quite obvious the subscribers > to this forum were targeted. The operative question, therefore, is how did > they get this list. This is not a criticism of the PTG because I believe > the PTG forum is managed to the best possible within their resources. But, > the question remains and I hope will be resolved. The immediate answer by > some willl be, it's not that difficult if you follow the forum. For the > benefit of those concerned, however, I was targeted and have not contributed > to this forum for several years so the ability of this source to find my > e-mail address deserves some investigation. > > Pianotech > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Mon, Sep 20, 2010 6:25 pm > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail > > Dog gone - sound like you are going to beat me to this unique business > opportunity! Shame on me! ;-) > > Terry Farrell > > On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft wrote: > > I got the same request this morning. If you can't fill this order, let me > know. I've got 3 all tuned, voiced and ready to go. > > Al - > High Point, NC > > *From:* Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> > *Sent:* Monday, September 20, 2010 4:32 PM > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org > *Subject:* [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail > > Am I the only one that received the following email? > > Dear sir/madam, > Good morning,my name is Alfred White and i am sending these email to make > an inquiry of some piano,which i will like you to get a price on the Yamaha > Baby Grand Piano with black polished. Can i get the total cost for 3 pianos > plus tax and without shipping and also i want to know when you can have all > the pianos ready for me to arrange for the pickup.I also like to know the > form of payment you do accept,i will be Waiting for your reply to proceed on > with the order Thank you and also stay bless. > I wish you the Best Regards all the time. > Alfred White > > > What is this? I suppose he will need my bank account numbers and be able > to write a check for $200,000 over the invoice amount with the balance to > him in cash. Geesh!!! :-( > > Terry Farrell > > > = > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100921/b2ac16ad/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:21:42 -0400 From: J Patrick Draine <jpdraine at gmail.com> To: "limhseng at gmail.com" <limhseng at gmail.com>, "pianotech at ptg.org" <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem Message-ID: <AANLkTina=DFAF2fna+Vf6cuCxggUJXFqX+wd3vAs8whw at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is that a/c environment on 24/7 or "as needed"? Patrick Draine On Tuesday, September 21, 2010, <limhseng at gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Paul > Its a Kawai SK7. The tuning pins are good and the piano is well kept ?in an a/c environment. It is use in a concert hall setting. > > Lim > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > Powered by Gee! from StarHub > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Paul McCloud" <pmc033 at earthlink.net> > Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org > Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 04:19:06 > To: limhseng at gmail.com,<pianotech at ptg.org> > Reply-To: pmc033 at earthlink.net, pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem > > Hi, Lim: > ? ? ? ?I've not seen any stability problems with pianos on stage trucks (trolly). > You might try tightening the bolts, but I don't see how a stage truck would > alter the tuning. ?You might look at other factors like temperature changes > or air movement over the piano as you tune. ?Is there direct sun on the > piano? ?Stage lights? ?Did you move the piano just before tuning? ?I've not > tuned one of these, so I couldn't comment on how they tune. ?Some Kawai > pianos are challenging to tune, hard to dial in unisons, etc. ?Maybe Don > Mannino can jump in here. ?(SK-7 is Shugeru Kawai, no?) > ? ? ? ?Paul McCloud > ? ? ? ?San Diego > > >> [Original Message] >> From: <limhseng at gmail.com> >> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >> Date: 09/21/2010 4:00:01 AM >> Subject: [pianotech] Tuning stability problem >> >> Hi >> When a grand piano sits on a Y type trolly, will there be tuning > stability problems? I tuned a SK7 which sits on a Y trolly and I have a > hard time on the octaves and unisons from key 55 onwards. >> >> Regards >> Lim >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >> Powered by Gee! from StarHub > > > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 07:43:59 -0700 From: "Larry Fisher RPT" <larryf at pacifier.com> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Piano Order Junk Mail Message-ID: <BDD5494026DD486A96406B80F46234F8 at LarryPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I didn't get the email either. My first experience with this was when I placed a piano ad with eBay. A dead giveaway to it's falseness was shipping the piano to Manila via FedEx. It was an Ampico player. It left this house to a local buyer. I've had on occasion similar instances with Craigslist. I like the idea of cash or gold bouillon at pick up. The process of acquiring email adrs is easily done for those with little brains. I highly doubt if this list was the source. Annoying yes, serious threat, no. Windows 7 comes with an email program (Windows Live) that I've been impressed with. It automatically senses junk mail for me with out having to input individual email adrs. There's obviously certain digital signatures that it sees and reacts to them. >From time to time I look over the filtered results and so far only one email was legitimate ......... that would be about one out of 1000's. Lar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100921/1500c86e/attachment.htm> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ pianotech mailing list pianotech at ptg.org http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech End of pianotech Digest, Vol 23, Issue 90 *****************************************
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