Roger, I reread the post. I like it. I'm gonna give a try next time. And your right you could have a record for string breakage here but not if the piano has been here it's whole life. West Texas...dry dry dry. Might have oil on it though....lol. Steven HoppMidland, TX From: roger at gablepiano.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:49:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] strings Steve, I have another perspective on the urban legend of string breakage. I never let the tension down before raising the pitch on suspected strings. After 45 years tuning pianos I would venture to guess that I break one string for every 40 or 50 pianos and maybe one string for every 20 or 30 pianos that need a pitch raise more that 25 cents. Living in the Pacific Northwest may contribute to this record because the climate is one of the worlds best for pianos; in Texas I suspect a significant string breakage record is possible. My theory is this. On old pianos, ninety-nine percent of strings break at the tuning pins. Why? Because it is the confluence of the greatest curvature of the string and the greatest pulling stress. Also, over the years of tuning, that point receives the greatest back and forth bending. Now comes the tuner who wants to pull the tension up by first letting the tension down because he/she believes that the string has "fused" together with the friction points. I believe piano wire doesn't fuse to the various friction points if the piano has had minimal playing. Keep in mind that vibration of the string doesn't stop at the agraffe (or other form of termination), but continues all the way to the tuning pin. This vibration prevents the fusing of the strings to those friction points. You gain nothing by letting the tension down but add to the bending of the wire at the tuning pin. I believe nothing is gained. Don't get the impression that I don't break strings, but I use common sense gained by years of experience. Some pianos simply used poor wire, and pianos built before nineteen hundred are always suspect. Obvious signs of rust and severe corrosion are to be suspect, as well as previous string breakage. When I approach a piano that I suspect may be a problem, I inform the customer of the situation and get their permission to do an "exploratory pull". Quickly pull all strings up a small amount to see if there is going to be a problem. Remember, the string will likely break at the initial pull. Using the "exploratory pull" method gives you valuable information in a short period of time -- no investing 20 minutes into the tuning and discover that you are breaking too many strings to warrant further work. On another related subject. I've have many encounters with technicians who pitch raise pianos in stages to avoid string breakage. Why? Do they believe the string will "heal" itself between tunings? Or course not. Another urban legend. Pull the piano up to pitch all at once and get it over with. Why cut off the puppy dogs tail an inch at a time? Now that I've opened up a controversial subject, what say the rest of you? Roger Gable ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Hopp To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] strings Hi Marshall, I teach piano as well as doing my tuning and technical work. Here is my thoughts/rant on the subject. Sorry it is really not an answer to your question. I hear the same thing from parents about wanting to see if their child is going to stay with piano. How long will it take for that requirement to be satisfied? One month, one year, 10 years? If they provide a poor (and it sounds like this one is in poor condition) instrument from the start and the child goes to the piano teachers home and plays on a decent if not good piano that is a strike right from the start. Little Timmy will come home and say my piano does not sound or feel like the teachers. Also, most schools have pianos and what is left of a music program. Could it be arranged for the child to practice at school? I assume the piano would be better than the Harrington. Many parents will drive their children to the soccer, football, basketball field and sit for hours while their kids play a sport. This would not be much different and might take only 30 minutes. Besides the piano can be a lonely instrument - it takes a certain kind of child to sit by himself for 20-30 minutes and learn to practice and play the piano. If someone was in the room during those times it would be very encouraging. Regarding school music programs, many in my area no longer provide instruments. Students must rent or buy their band and orchestra instruments as well as all the things that go with them. i.e. cases, rosin, extra strings and reeds, neck supports, chin rests, music stands etc. My mother still has the saxaphone she bought for my nephew 10 years ago in the closet because he gave up after the first few months. It cost $300.00 plus the extras. It brings me back to my statement I say to many customers and parents. "Just because the piano makes a noise doesn't mean it is in a good playable condition." Your right in your evaluation. It needs major work to be a decent piano. If they can't afford it then they must explore other options. If your worried about string breakage and splicing galore - then I say: "run". It is just not worth it. So here is a suggestion that might help them until they can afford the repairs needed or get a different piano or really decide that little Timmy is going to stick with it. Buy an electronic piano. This one http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4438394&filterName=Category might work and is affordable, easy to move, and could be resold or returned if things don't work out. Hope this helps and sorry but this really touches my life on a regular basis. Best Regards, Steven Hopp Midland, TX From: pianotune05 at hotmail.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 08:23:59 -0400 Subject: [pianotech] strings Hi Everyone, I have a customer whos mother has an old harrington upright, heavy as all get out. I tuned my customers piano and evaluated the Harrington in the afternoon. This Harrington's been in the family for ages, and they received it second hand and "it was old then." according to them. Her mother wants her grand son to take lessons but doesn't want to put a lot of money into repair etc, just enough to get the piano playable/tuned pretty much until she knows if he's going to stay with the lessons. I hear this quite often from people. The piano needs a complete overhaul. Although the bridges seem fine aside from all the dust, and one small crack in the sound board. My huge concern is the strings, so rusty. My question is this. Is there something I can do to the strings before tuning them to prevent breakage. Lubricating them just causes the dust to adhere to the strings. I've heard of lowering pitch even more to break off any rust. Are there any other methods I can use so I'm not replacing and splicing a ton of strings? Pins seem nice and snug too. I'm amazed. this piano is pretty solid, and if they refurbished it, it would be a good instrument. Bass strings are dead especially the single strings. I suggested obtaining a different piano would be their best choice, but they want to see if he's going to stick with the lessons first. So your thoughts would be great. Thanks Marshall Marshall Gisondi Piano Technician Marshall's Piano Service pianotune05 at hotmail.com 215-510-9400 www.phillytuner.com Graduate of The School of Piano Technology for the Blind www.pianotuningschool.org Vancouver, WA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100912/aba32a29/attachment.htm>
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