[pianotech] Fire hose failure!

[Greg Newell]

David,
	You raise some interesting points that I have given a little thought
to. As far as making the pattern for each board glue up I'm not that
concerned about it and don't really think that it will take that long. I
have a huge supply of those panels anyway that I'm just dying to use up.
Regarding the glue mess inside the bag and dried on afterward my thought was
simply to tape along the line of where the rib will go and peel off the tape
when the panel comes out of the bag. I'm not married to the bag method but
I'm willing to give it a few tries anyway to see if I can develop a
technique that works. The manufacturer of the bag mentioned that one of the
piano manufacturers was using bags to make boards so I can continue to ask
questions and maybe come up with something. Before you ask I think he said
that Baldwin was the manufacturer. Sorry I don't really remember every
detail of our conversation. It was some time ago and there is a lot of stuff
going on in my life right now. I'll try and let you know how this develops
as time allows.

All the best,

Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forté
www.gregspianoforte.com
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:22 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

Also, recall that the ribs are of variable radius so clamping them into a
preformed caul for glued just helps insure that the radius is maintained.
Probably not that big a deal in terms of outcome.  Still the melamine
pattern would have to be made for each board which isn't practical unless
you are doing the same board over and over.  Also, it's messy.  With squeeze
out and the vacuum bag you'd conceivably have glue smearing around at the
glue line.  With the press method the squeeze out is accessible even while
clamped.  I suppose you could do it the way you suggest but I'm not sure
what the benefit would be.  

David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:54 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

David,
	Not sure what you mean by the last sentence. If you've made the ribs
radiused in a caul what further need do you have for a caul? At that point
your just attaching ribs to the board and with the melamine cut in a
negative rib pattern trying to prevent them from sliding around while the
bag draws down the vacuum. The ribs already have the radius needed and the
board will conform to them. I'm assuming built up ribs not cut ribs.

Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forté
www.gregspianoforte.com
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 1:39 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

I suppose if you were making the same board over and over again but since
I'm not it's a lot of additional work.  Also, one thing that happens is that
the ribs are pressed down onto the panel and into a caul matching the radius
of the ribs (even though the ribs are crowned) which is harder to manage
with a vacuum press.  

David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com


-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:46 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

You sure about that? If you use a template made of that melamine stuff to
locate the ribs and tape the board to the melamine it works quite well. Cut
slots into the melamine and the ribs sit in the cut slots and are then
sandwiched to the soundboard locating them well and preventing their
movement while the bag vacuum clamps it all together. I'm assuming ribs that
aren't flat. Works quite well actually.

Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forté
www.gregspianoforte.com
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:30 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

Doesn't work for ribbing.  

David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com


-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 2:58 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

A large vacuum bag.

Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forté
www.gregspianoforte.com
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:15 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!

Ribbing a board today I discovered that my pneumatic clamps (firehoses) had
all sprung leaks to the extent that my compressor wouldn't keep quite enough
air pressure (argh).  So, while I did fashion a remedy for the short term
I'm shopping to replace the fire hose material with something a bit more
air-o-dynamic.  Any suggestions?

David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com