Hello, Thanks to all for the suggestions. In the end it was duplex noise. Once muted everything was fine. I thought it was in relation to my finling and voicing but I now realize that we had just moved this piano from a proffessors small office to an auditorium. I believe the acoustics are what helped pronounce the noise which was probably already present in the small room but was not as audible? I will know for sure when we move it back after the recital Sunday. It is interesting that the proffesor did not hear the noise until I pointed it out to him while explaining the "funny" mute job in the non speaking length of the strings. Cheers to all, Steven Hopp PianoWorks Studio Midland, TX From: karlkaputt at hotmail.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:12:50 +0200 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds These sounds are a really interesting but also a very annoying issue. In the case of Steven´s sounds my first guess would be string mating, but David correctly described the other options with quite good words (buzz, ping or whine). I encounter such sounds quite often and in the end I feel helpless sometimes. I think that I can distinguish the source of these sounds by ear (hammer versus string), but I may be wrong with that. When it´s the string or something other non hammer related, you can needle like you want but the sound won´t fade away. At best it will become less strong, but the hammer will sound much softer as its neighbours. My problem are just these non hammer related sounds. Usually I do this: First at all I lower string tension very quick and raise to pitch again immediately. If that does not help I do string seating on the bridge. Then I check string mating. Then I put my finger or a felt beween the speaking lenght and the pin. I even check if the coils are tight. Then I lower the tension of the whole unison and move the unison to the left and right repeatedly to remove a potential burr. If that all does not help I try needling, but as mentioned this makes not only the noise softer but also the sound of the hammer. Then the moment starts that I think I am married with that noise and that makes me feel bad. Unfortunately that happens too often. I have no idea who is the culprit: the string, a burr, maybe the striking lenght? Sometimes it happens that I notice that noise while checking string mating by chipping with my finger, i.e. the hammer touches the string and I chip with a finger nail and hear that noise. Could it be a flageolet? To describe that sound in English I looked up in a dictionary and found whizzing, and also ringing comes to my mind. I am talking about uprights, not about the typical Steinway grand treble noise which can be muted by felt. Gregor ------------------------------------------ piano technician - tuner - dealer Münster, Germany www.weldert.de From: davidlovepianos at comcast.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:16:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds The first thing to determine then is if the sound is a buzz meaning some extraneous non hammer related noise or simply the fact that you sanded the hammers down to a harder area and you’re getting some pings or maybe a high pitched whine from poor string mating. After careful mating of the hammers to the strings, single string voicing should give you a strong hint meaning isolate the offending string and with a chopstick voicing tool address the surface of the hammer only where that one string contacts the hammer. With single string voicing check the mating each time you do this as it can change the mating. Check the other string positions as well with soft, medium and louder playing. If that corrects the problem then it’s the hammer. If it doesn’t then you can start examining the capo bar. I don’t recall are B4 and C5 capo bar notes on the C7 or agraffes or split? On the Steinway B I believe B4 is that last agraffe note and C5 the first capo bar note. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Steven Hopp Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:34 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds David, My voicing experience is minimal at best. I have practiced reshaping hammers for RPT test and have done hammer sanding with great care and caution on my own piano and a few others. I have done some needling according to andre' and some others sources. All very carefully and with what my musical ear says have been good results. This piano got a light sanding of all hammers and the results are good. The tone is generally even and with some needle work should be good for the age of the hammers. What happened is where I am confused. The three aformentioned notes are ringing as if there are some very high partials sounding?? Now mind you it is not as if you can not here the fundamental anymore it is just some extraneous noise that pings rings or whatever. I did check on the B4 and if I mute the left string the sound is much less to almost gone. I did not have time until tomorrow to deal with this. I hope this helps. Any suggestions? And thanks to those who have provided them so far. I am going to take the consensus before I proceed. Thanks, Steven From: davidlovepianos at comcast.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:19:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds Do you mean they are pinging? Or is there some other extraneous noise? What kind of voicing experience do you have generally (sorry, I don’t mean this question to be offensive)? David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Steven Hopp Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:21 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds Sorry about the lack of info. Yamaha C7. Offending notes: B4, C5, B6. Piano is 30 years old and has original hammers. Hope that helps. I am going to check the string mating and my filing. Thanks again, Steven Hopp > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:13:19 -0500 > From: rnossaman at cox.net > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Finger Cymbal Sounds > > Steven Hopp wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me why after sanding a set of hammers (lightly) I now > > have 3 hammers that have sounds coming from them that ring almost like a > > carol of the bells finger cymbal??? Are there super high partials being > > excited??? Most importantly what can I do to get rid of them. I have > > the new voicing book from Andre' but no mention that I can remember. > > Instead of the inevitable game of 50,000,000,000 random > guesses, some (any) actual information would narrow it down to > a hopefully couple of hundred or fewer less random guesses. > Like for instance, type of piano (upright, grand), brand, area > of the scale, agraffe or vbar, front duplex type, etc??? You > know, information somewhat more detailed than "it's broke". > Ron N Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. Das neue Windows 7: Vereinfachen Sie Ihre täglichen Aufgaben. Finden Sie den richtigen PC. _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: Simplify your PC. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen1:102009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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