[pianotech] Additional Information Regarding False Beats

David Ilvedson ilvey at sbcglobal.net
Fri Feb 27 13:40:38 PST 2009


Ric,

Are you saying that inserting a brass bushing (what is that?  like a pin?) under the string in the middle of the bridge will never cause a false beat or that sometimes it never causes a false beat?   That replacing a bridge pin on a string that is clean always stays clean even if the new pin is smaller and loose?  

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Richard Brekne" <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Received: 2/27/2009 6:50:22 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Additional Information Regarding False Beats


>    I am a frequent reader of this list and it has been a great source 
>of information in my studies.  Thank you all for generously sharing your 
>knowledge.

>    -Zane Omohundro
> 
>Hi
>Reading the many opinions on this as so many other piano subject matter 
>is sometimes almost as entertaining as observing the various opinions 
>there are relating to Cosmology.  You will find the greatest part of the 
>"information" available is really opinion and conjecture and there is 
>some smaller amount of bold faced pure facta.

>A recent article in the Journal by Jim Ellis with contributions from Del 
>Fandrich and a couple others takes the string isolated from the effects 
>of the soundboard and bridge assembly and shows some interesting 
>results. John Delecour posted a link to a paper done on the subject 
>matter some time back. The Five Lectures, tho not directly relevant are 
>worth looking through as they get into some of the possible ways the 
>soundboard and bridge assembly can get into the false beat picture. 
>http://www.speech.kth.se/music/5_lectures/contents.html

>I have done quite a bit of informal experimenting myself on the matter, 
>tho have not published a formal study (yet) and found that the 
>observable relationship between loose pins and occurrent classic false 
>beats is from a statistical point of view is actually quite random. At 
>the same time the addition of substances such as cellulose lacquer, CA 
>glue, epoxy and some others to the bridge pin holes has a statistically 
>significant impact on the reduction of these false beats. Drawing 
>conclusions as to why this happens is another matter and I maintain 
>there is no hard evidence to support any of the conclusions usually made 
>and voiced.

>Interestingly, relating to the loose pin argument frequently floating.  
>You can take 10 very clean sounding strings, replace the bridge pin with 
>an undersized pin creating a very loose pin situation and find that none 
>of these same develop false beats.  You can also simulate the stated 
>condition that supposedly causes the false beat (flag poling pins) by 
>inserting a 2 mm brass bushing under the string at the center of the 
>bridge extending back to the distal bridge pin and find no development 
>of false beats. You can also experience that a false beat IS evident and 
>either of the alterations above actually eliminate it.... tho this 
>doesn't seem to happen more then a small percentage of the time.

>I don't pretend to have the answers as to why things behave the way they 
>do.... but my approach to this kind of thing is to directly observe 
>various isolated conditions to see if the observable results match up 
>with what those who rely on some understanding of theory claim should 
>happen. 

>Cheers
>RicB










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