I don’t know if you’re missing the point I just think you are incorrect. It’s an interesting claim but it flies in the face of my experience, and others it would seem. The stability of a fine tuning is easily measurable so show me the research and data that support that there is no way to fine tune a piano that has been radically pitch altered—even after 10 passes. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:21 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] PR follow up David: It is only tiresome when the physics of the piano are ignored and there is an admixture of contradictory terms which result in confusion, particularly for those who are new to this field. Your phrase "'adequate' fine tuning" illustrates the confusion of terms. Does my "adequate" and your "'adequate' fine" tunings mean the same thing? My only point is that there is no way actually to "fine" tune a piano which has been radically pitch altered at the same sitting, even with 10 passes. A perfectly adequate, acceptable for the home practice piano, tuning is achievable by exactly the procedures you outline. Just as we gradually narrow the range of movement of the tuning pin when refining a desired pitch, so we also go through "passes" of pitch alteration and stabilization in order to get the piano at or around, and remaining as best we can it at or around, the overall pitch we desire, in order, first, to adequately tune the piano, then as circumstances demand, achieve a "fine" tuning on some return. Adequate strikes me as the fuzzy word; fine is the more clearly defined condition, and shouldn't be subject to the destabilizing variations which result from major pitch change. Am I still missing your point? Cheers, Paul In a message dated 8/28/2009 3:06:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, davidlovepianos at comcast.net writes: It may be tiresome but my experience more parallels Wim’s, with some exceptions. I think one can easily accomplish more than just an “adequate” fine tuning after a pitch raise, even a radical one. In order to gain the greatest stability the piano needs to be as close as possible to the target before the fine tuning. If the piano is considerably off pitch that might require a second or even a third rough pass before an attempt is made for a fine tuning. A firm pounding and even modest pin setting during those rough tunings helps. For most situations I have not found it necessary to come back after two weeks, or even two months, concert work notwithstanding. Whether or not in certain parts of the country a significant shift in RH can happen during that 2 week or 2 month period is a separate issue and, of course, will create pitch changes unrelated to the issue in question. Insisting that the piano be tuned again in 2 weeks is overkill, in my view. The more prudent approach would be to advise the customer that some pianos may be slower to stabilize than others after radical pitch changes and may require a follow up tuning. That way if they find begin to hear some instability they can call to schedule another tuning as they see the need arise rather than attempting to impose an additional service call and fee on them. I do, in such situations, strongly recommend that they try and maintain at least a twice a year schedule depending on how sensitive they are to “out of tuneness”. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:43 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] PR follow up In a message dated 8/28/2009 2:34:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, wimblees at aol.com writes: I just received a private post from a non-member who agrees with me that a pitch raise and fine tuning can be done in one sitting, followed with a return visit 6 months, or even a year later. He thinks that scheduling a follow up visit 2 weeks later is not necessary, and borders on being unethical. While I don't necessarily think it is unethical, I do agree that there is no need to come back in 2 weeks, if the pr and fine tuning were done right. I'll say it once again, Wim, but it's tiresome. If the piano requires a radical pitch change, you might be able to tune it adequately after the pitch work and leave it for some (ethical) period of time before returning. The use of the word fine in relation to a totally destabilized piano is misleading and wishful. You need to make a distinction here. To be sure, if this piano is being used for a concert, and it was indeed 10 or 15 cents low, then the return visit is necessary, but only because a return visit for a concert is SOP in the first place. But other than that, it is not necessary. And here's why. Pitch raise situations generally fall into two categories. And everything in between. It's a false dichotomy. One is where the piano was bought by someone, and they want to get it tuned. In this case, the previous owner had neglected the piano, and the new customer wants to start fresh. Selling her/him a pitch raise is easy, and the customer will be very open to having the piano tuned again in 6 months. The other situation is where the customer hasn't had the piano tuned for 5 or 10 years, and was either told by someone the piano is badly out of tune, or she/he has a party coming up, and wants the piano to sound good. When I was still in St. Louis, I only sent out reminder cards which asked customers to call me to schedule an appointment. I would say only about 25% of the pitch raise customers, including those who promised to call me in 6 months, did so. Some might call after a year. But a majority would never call me, or maybe 4 or 5 years later. For those who just bought the piano, maybe they called someone else, or decided the piano was a bad investment, and sold it again. But for those who had the piano tuned for the party, will probably not have it done again until just before their next party, 10 years later. They just don't hear it, and it's not important to them to have the piano tuned that often. Now that I pre-scheduled appointments, half of those I pre-schedule 6 months later will call me to cancel the appointment. The others will have me come, but question whether or not it needs it. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician Mililani, Oahu, HI 808-349-2943 Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com _____ _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090828/6b1648b1/attachment-0001.htm>
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