My take would be what I said. " Perhaps to an unqualified ear, it would sound "good enough" but to a qualified ear that can hear the difference, it will not and should not be good enough." Or, sloppy workmanship. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Terry Farrell Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:56 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Attention Ed Foote - Pitch raising limit Well, actually I quite agree with your statements. I just wonder why it is that I so often hear what I originally stated...... Terry Farrell On Aug 7, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Gerald Groot wrote: For me, if a piano is even 1 cent off for a fine tuning, that's a lot. I've used RCT for a couple of years now and while I like it a great deal, it does not put a fine enough tuning on a pitch raised piano to a qualified tuning ear. A second fine tuning pass is always needed unless the piano is maybe only a couple of cents off or so. Of, if the person behind the machine just figures "good enough" and I don't do that. I guess what I'm saying is this. Perhaps to an unqualified ear, it would sound "good enough" but to a qualified ear that can hear the difference, it will not and should not be good enough. Each piano tunes differently and must be compensated for in a different manner in some way or another with not only a pitch raise but with a fine tuning as well. When we tune a lousy good for nothing piano, often times we compensate say, a 3rd for a better sounding 5th or visa versa for a better sounding octave. Plus, RCT and all machines do not always pick up on the correct readings as they should. Especially on the cheap end pianos. And, they do not always listen to what they should be listening for which means, it remains up to us to be able to tell the difference and then to be able to know what to do about it. Jer From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Terry Farrell Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:24 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Attention Ed Foote - Pitch raising limit How can that be true? From what I hear, Cybertuner can calculate offsets on any and every piano to within a couple of cents from any degree of flatness - such that a second, fine tuning pass, is not needed. Terry Farrell On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Piano Boutique wrote: Another William adding a thought. It has been my experience that pulling a piano sharp for a pitch raise, is not as cut and dried as one might think. To begin with a Baldwin, especially the studios hardly fall at all. On the other hand there is Wurlitzer and Kimball that fall considerably. Finally, there are the American Aeolian spinets that, well, you get the drift. There is just my take on the fact that every piano is different as well as the tuner handling the problem. William ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerald Groot <mailto:tunerboy3 at comcast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Attention Ed Foote - Pitch raising limit William. I agree. A machine isn't everything and no matter how hard we try, the human ear is awfully hard to beat in the end. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of William Monroe Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:36 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Attention Ed Foote - Pitch raising limit Dare I.......... Satisfaction, Duaine. A desire to be better. A realization that for some, the craft, the process of creating is also fulfilling. And it provides an opportunity to grow. Why tax oneself? I study the Tae Kwon Do, and no matter how good I get, there will always be room for improvement, personal growth, professional growth. Without stress, and strain, there is no improvement. In my life, repetition is meaningless without concurrent improvement and growth. It's what satisfies me. It's not wasteful for those who gain something from the process. I think I wrote this for me....... William R. Monroe a440a wrote: > I have simplified my life. I use the SAT <snip> I tune 88 notes to > the top. It works well, its fast, and will produce a performance > level tuning 98% of the time. > Regards, > -- > Ed Foote RPT SNIP BINGO!! THEN - WHY - waste / stress / strain your ears doing COMPLETE aural tunings. SNIP Regards, Duaine _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090806-1, 08/06/2009 Tested on: 8/6/2009 11:47:54 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090807-0, 08/07/2009 Tested on: 8/7/2009 4:47:29 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! 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