question for aural tuners

[Allen Wright]

Jon,

One of my favorite listening tests in the bass for consistency of  
octave size on the way down is the beats that are created in the  
octave at the 10-5 level, which  are quite noticeable (especially in  
medium to small pianos). They get pretty slow on larger grands, but  
still useable most of the way down - even if it's just to see what  
side of the 10-5 you're on). The contiguous partials that you'll hear  
beating are at the pitch of three octaves and a third up from the  
bottom note of the octave; play that note softly first in order to  
get the pitch fixed before you listen for it in the octave, if you're  
unsure how to hear it.

You can combine that with the m3-M6 test inside the octave (once  
you've found an octave size that you like by the sound of it in terms  
of clarity and tone) in order to start a pattern of slight descending  
beat speeds with the 10-5 test. I hope that makes sense. Anything  
that helps you stick to some sort of pattern that will give you  
consistent octave size on the way down.

Because that's what we're going for, isn't it? If one octave beats  
at, say 2 bps at the 10-5 level, and then the next octave down is  
more expanded so that it's beatless, then those two octaves sound  
quite different (because all the other contiguous partials that have  
any activity are all beating at different rates, so the quality of  
sound of those two octaves is quite different).

It's all partly a matter of choice and taste, but at least we should  
make the choice consistent. I find those two tests the most useful  
for me in the bass section on most pianos I tune.

Good luck,

Allen Wright


On Jul 18, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Michael Magness wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 3:09 AM, Willem Blees <wimblees at aol.com>  
> wrote:
> Jon
>
> A lot has to do with the quality of the piano. For good quality  
> grands, I use the checks you do, or the two octave and a 7th. On  
> less quality grands and most vertical pianos, I mostly listen to  
> octaves and double octaves.
>
> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT
> Piano Tuner/Technician
> Honolulu, HI
> 808-349-2943
> www.bleespiano.com
> Author of
> The Business of Piano Tuning
> available from Potter Press
> www.pianotuning.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Golding <jgmdpiano at gmail.com>
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Sent: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 4:07 pm
> Subject: question for aural tuners
>
> When tuning the last octave of the piano's bass section I would  
> like to know people's opinions on how they get the best results.  
> For me, I find this a tricky area to get consistently good results.  
> Some bass strings sound dead whereas others are harsh sounding and  
> some have lots of overtones. As well, each piano seems to have a  
> different amount of stretch to take into consideration.  When  
> tuning the last octave I usually check using the Maj 17th against  
> the Maj 10th for approximate equal beating. When I play the octaves  
> together harmonically I find that this leaves the last octave  
> sounding too high to my ear. Any comments or suggestions? Any  
> single partial for this area which could be helpful?
> Thanks, Jon
> The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ  
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>
> Hi Jon,
> I have to agree with Willem that the quality will dictate which  
> method works best, I have also discovered since I began using them  
> that earplugs (20db) help cut down on some of the "garbage"  
> allowing me to hear more easily what I trained myself for over 35  
> years to find among that "garbage". I use the maj 17th as a final  
> check "walking" up the keyboard and listening for that smooth  
> progression of beat rates. When I find one that is faster or slower  
> I check it for tune and begin again.
>
> Mike
>
> -- 
> Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can  
> catch excellence.
> Vince Lombardi
>
> Michael Magness
> Magness Piano Service
> 608-786-4404
> www.IFixPianos.com
> email mike at ifixpianos.com






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