Friday, July 18, 2008 11:00:44 AM Ron Nossaman wrote >>There are >> issues to discuss here, and priorities to be balanced - so >> there is no reason to dismiss those who disagree with you >> as those who "accept the status quo of the Steinway >> sostenuto system". There are good reasons for maintaining >> them, from some perspectives. >Oh, you want perspective? How many Steinways are in concert >situations in institutions, as opposed to those in less >critical and less time constrained use in educational >institutions, churches, and homes? I'll grant you homes. In all other institutional settings time constraints are a constant reality. I would rather not spend the time getting past the sostenuto. There is always triage going on - I would rather spend my time on things that actually improve the function of the piano rather than getting past something that is there purely for convenience in a rarely performed procedure. >So what would be the >realistic usage percentage justification for the concert >access story? Ah, Ron you should have been in politics - you are a master of framing. There are a lot more time-pressure type venues than just concerts. Ever try to keep a classroom or studio piano at a university in anything resembling acceptable condition? Access is always an issue and when you do get access - you don't have a minute to spare. And the same goes for various professional venues. >Also, if the action mounted sostenutos are kept >for the concert techs, why are they on the Ms, the Os, the Ls? See above. >Are there many high pressure concert venues using Ms these >days? Like most things Steinway, there seems to be a whole lot >more emotional froth generated, than rational connections. And this is precisely why I berated you the way I did - you insist on dismissing those whose opinion differs from yours as engaging in some sort of Steinway induced "froth". Steinways are problematic instruments in many ways - but that sostenuto is not one of the problems, in my opinion. Based on years of experience. RN >> >And being ignorant of the give and take of the formal >> educational process, having acquired my apparently sub >> standard education outside an institutional setting? IS >>No. Just a lack of respect for approaches other than your >> own... >You mean like you're showing me? Just returning the favor. Got tired of your dismissiveness of others (as demonstrated above) and that tirade against formal education pushed me over the edge. RN >> And being myopic in my inability to understand the value >> of knowledge acquired from others in a give and take >> instructor/student setting? IS > I think your original message reeks of that attitude - > where you dismiss knowledge acquired in institutional > settings in a rather jaundiced peroration... I took it as > an attack on all those who attempt to teach and learn in > that manner - and tried to give you a taste of your own > medicine. How does it feel to be painted with a broad > brush? RN >>I most typically am, by those that don't know me and make >>emotionally based snap judgments from something they believe I >>said. It's not what you say Ron - you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone els - it's how you say it. You can make your point without dismissing the opinions of others as somehow being "froth" or - by imp[lication - noit being based on observation or experience. You don't have a monopoly on those... IS >> That remark was aimed not at you personally - but at the >> customary way in which an awful lot of technicians gain >> their knowledge. Perhaps you only screwed up pianos for a >> few months. Or perhaps you got it right on the first try - >> I mean you are a pretty smart guy... Or did someone show >> you how? RN >You're joking, right? EVERYBODY showed me how, as well as how >not. Are you actually under the delusion that everyone who >didn't have institutional training from the beginning is >operating in a total vacuum? Precisely the point I was trying to make about your tirade damning academically acquired knowledge as worthless. "The fact is that anyone incapable of learning without being taught is doomed to run their programming forever because they'll never overcome their ! education - or rather someone else's education that was installed in them." Just as preposterous a statement as the one of mine that you object to. RN >You do seem to be of the impression that my opinions and ideas >of how things work come to me in dreams, and I go into the >world to shout it into compliance with my "vision". Not so. My >current and ever changing opinion set is a distillation of >ideas I've accumulated everywhere through the years, from >everyone. Even from you, since I don't consider the validity >of information to be dependent on it's source. And if you could accord the same courtesy to those who may disagree with you - that perhaps their opinions and approaches might just be a "distillation of ideas (they have) accumulated everywhere through the years, from everyone" - rather than dismissing them as "froth" or in some other biting remark that you are oh so good at (I do get an occasional chuckle) then there would be no problem... Israel Stein
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