Dear friends on this list.
I'd like to add my two cents about Perfect Pitch. The term is used loosely by us folks in the Music Business to be able to identify a note by its tone without looking at it. Until I started reading this discussion...there was never a question about how many cents flat or sharp the note actually is. Just the ability to tell a note by tone...without seeing it. In my family...there are 3 of us with the so-called Perfect Pitch...myself...my sister and my mother. You are born with this. It is a gift and should be treated as such. Many people have the term you use "Relative Pitch".
I was told I had it early on when Mom played a song on the piano and she missed the note...and I told her what it was and sang it to her. This was when I was around 9 or 10. I was tested after by having many notes played...chords included...and I correctly identified all of them....including the individual notes in the chords.
It's both a blessing and curse. Blessing to help my Bandmates identify chord progressions learning songs...curse when someone is either flat or sharp singing or playing or being asked "what key is that drawbridge in"...that happened to me often earlier in my career playing locally here.
Since tuning pianos...it's neither a blessing nor a curse...just another tool to guide me. I don't worry about being a couple of cents off either way...we can either identify aurally or use a tuner...and it goes with my territory of being a musician for over 50 years.
Pefect Pitch...in the "human" term...thanks for letting me add my two cents here.
Marc P. Mailhot
Marco Polo Music
Westbrook, ME USA
--- On Tue, 7/1/08, pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote:
From: pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org>
Subject: Pianotech Digest, Vol 1301, Issue 10
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 8:50 PM
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than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..."Today's Topics:
1. Wives Tales--Pitch (Richard Gullion)
2. RE: Wives tales ... sax and violins (Tom Sivak)
3. Re: Wives tales ... (Ron Nossaman)
4. Re: Wives tales ... (paulrevenkojones at aol.com)
5. Re: Wives tales ... sax and violins (paulrevenkojones at aol.com)
6. RE: Wives tales ... violin tuning (Matthew Todd)
7. Re: vertical legs (Willem Blees)
8. Re: Wives tales ... violin tuning (paul bruesch)
9. Re: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES (paul bruesch)
10. Re: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES (Willem Blees)
#yiv698781487 .hmmessage P
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When a client boasts to me about perfect pitch etc...I raise my eyebrows and say amazing, what a rare gift. No debate or discussion.
Richard the 'Piano Guy'
www.thepianoguy.webs.com
--- A E <eve_ane at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> 2. dont persue things, becaus eim not the one being
> a d***
> someone should kick u out of here...
> Alicia
I've subscribed to this list since the 90s, and I've
followed many heated discussions in the past. But
through all of the furor, innuendos, insults, etc.,---
I have never seen anyone call someone else a "d***".
The thought may have been there, but decorum,
civility, or a general respect for others on this list
prevented them from putting it in print.
If I felt as self-important as you, I would proclaim
that it is you, my dear, that should be kicked off
this list. But it's not for me to say. I can kick no
one off this list, with or without sharp tongue.
All I can say is that I find your rhetoric
distasteful, but that, too, is in the tongue of the
beholder, so to speak.
I was surprised to find that I, myself had offended
others in the course of this discussion. At this
point, though, I have to wonder whether referring to
someone as a "testy little thing" is in the same
category as calling them a "d***".
Tom Sivak
Chicago> Ron,
> Another 10,00 words or so and you would have a nice manifesto!
> Kindest Regards,
> Garret
I have written them. They're out there in the world, at least
10,000 of them, for the most part spelled out as complete
words, in recognizable sentences, with nominally appropriate
capitalization and punctuation. Especially commas, lots of commas.
Ron N
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
To: hpp at highpointpiano.com; Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: Wives tales ...
> Ron,
> Another 10,00 words or so and you would have a nice manifesto! > Kindest Regards,
> Garret
I have written them. They're out there in the world, at least 10,000 of them, for the most part spelled out as complete words, in recognizable sentences, with nominally appropriate capitalization and punctuation. Especially commas, lots of commas.
Ron N
Presumably, most of them Pythagorean.
P
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At this
point, though, I have to wonder whether referring to
someone as a "testy little thing" is in the same
category as calling them a "d***".
No, different categories. Equally offensive. Lift your spirits, folks and talk to each other like adults.
P
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Hey Alicia,
I mentioned Jesus Christ, because He was the only One who was perfect. Hence my statement, "besides Jesus Christ". Try not to be so defensive here. You are very testy, as others on the list have agreed with me.
And please, quit "egging on" this subject. It has gotten you (us) no where. My apologizes to the list for this.
And what does "u cal flatten the A" mean?
Please e-mail me privately from now on and we can "talk" there.
Matthew
A E <eve_ane at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Matt just one more thing... and this is without offence to anyone... You said besides Jesus Christ you have to yet see perfection.. guess what mate, chances are he didnt exist, no one knows or ever will for sure, people thrue out history have twisted SOOOOOO many things, that the reality of things may be lost... So i suggest you think about what YOU say before you point out my view on "perfection"
Well it really doesnt matter now does it, he still calls out the right note.... u cal flatten the A by a beat or two.... but its still going to be an A... yes?
Alicia
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:42:20 -0700
From: toddpianoworks at att.net
Subject: RE: Wives tales ... violin tuning
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Alicia,
Perfection is not in the eyes of the beholder, sorry. You are perfect, or you are not. Saying "no one is perfect" is safe to say for everyone in this world, including you Alicia. Knowing what people can and cannot do has nothing to do with this. People have different talents. I can operate a skil saw very well, but I still have to use a guide to get a perfectly straight cut. The most amazing concert pianists practice ALL day. If they were perfect, there would be no need for them to practice.
You naming the notes as your friends played it is still relative pitch.
As for your friend...telling you how sharp or flat a note within 1 to 2 cents is still not perfect.
Matthew
A E <eve_ane at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
I messed around with my friends before who are tied down in musical field, they randomly pressed keys on my piano and 9 out of10 i got it spot on... a few years ago i had a friend (may he rest in peace) who could tell u exactly how sharp of flat the note was, and get it withing 1-2 cents....
there is such a thing i think.... it comes with experience, and knowing ur instrument... or in my case probably sheeer dumb luck...!
U cant speak for everyone in this world Matt, u dont know what people can and can not do..
as for human perfection... well in that case, perfection is in the eyes of the beholder, and no one else matteres...
Alicia
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 05:57:58 -0700
From: toddpianoworks at att.net
Subject: Re: Wives tales ... violin tuning
To: pianotech at ptg.org
There is no such thing as PERFECT pitch, only relative pitch. It someone had perfect pitch, it would mean it would have to be perfect, and besides Jesus Christ, I have yet to see a human that was perfect. If indeed this customer had perfect pitch, they could be able to tell you that the note was four cents flat. But because she said the note sounded like a "d", it is relative.
Matthew
Richard Brekne <ricb at pianostemmer.no> wrote:
Yes... a good sense of relative pitch memory is an interesting thing
indeed. Its just that it would be best for all concerned if it were kept
better in perspective... i.e. words like Perfect and Absolute left out
of it. Severely extreme cases of pitch sensitivity are more a handicap
then an asset. Fortunately... there are very very few on this planet
that actually suffer to that degree....and correspondingly few that
could with any hint of justification fnyss at someone else for erring
<> pitchwise.
Cheers
RicB
I had a customer a few days ago, whose piano I tuned 2 years ago.
She played some notes and said how flat they were...the piano in
general sounded reasonable. I got started and the piano was indeed
about 4 cents flat and 7 in the treble. When done I asked her if
she had perfect pitch...wasn't sure. I played a D and she said that
sounded like a D...pretty cool...
David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica , CA 94044
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Before ordering,make sure there used to be legs on this piano. It could be a European look.
Otherwise, GRK has legs.
Wim
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Bondi <phil at philbondi.com>
To: Newtonville <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 9:48 am
Subject: vertical legs
Hi all.
Just got off the phone with a woman who wants legs for her vertical piano. It seems she was sold the piano without the legs, and according to her, it's tipsy.
A recommended source is what's needed here.
thanks,
-Phil Bondi(Fl)
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I tried this... my GF ordered me to "Stop it"!!
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Stéphane Collin <collin.s at skynet.be> wrote:
<snip>
Don't think, just sing the beginning of the Beatles song "Yesterday", pretending you are McCartney. Come on, anybody can do that. "Yesterdaaaay…" stop here. On daaay, you will be singing an F. Try it. If you are not sure to remember that sound right, try and sing "Hey Juuuude…" stop here, and knowing both songs are in the same tonality (the tonality that fits Mc Cartney's voice), think that Juuude is an A and is the third of the F major chord, so you can check with the F of Yesterday, and blending both songs will get you even closer. Believe me, it is impossible to be more than 2 steps off, it would sound weird. With a little practice, you will get even closer, that is if you aren't yet. </snip>
24. (Piano teacher speaking) Well she got it from Bob and he's a good player so I thought it would be a good piano (and well worth $100... about a spinet with at least two dozen hammers with the felt peeling/peeled off and otherwise not even really qualifying as a PSO)
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Paul T Williams <pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu> wrote:
21. I think somebody replaced the "pads" once
22. It was totally rebuilt (meaning...maybe new bass strings and/or hammers)
23, If the soundboard has a crack in it, then it's worthless.
"Rob & Helen Goodale" <rhgoodale at embarqmail.com>
Sent by: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
07/01/2008 12:45 PM
Please respond to
Rob & Helen Goodale <rrg at unlv.nevada.edu>; Please respond to
Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
To
<pianotech at ptg.org>
cc
Subject
SOME COMMON WIVES TALES
Here are a few common or reported piano wives tales. Feel free to add to
the list if you have more.
1. Plates are made of solid brass
2. Cases are made of "solid" whatever the veneer happens to be, i.e. "For
Sale: solid oak piano".
3. Full sized uprights are also called grands.
4. Any old piano MUST be valuable because everyone knows that antiques are
priceless.
5. The piano has had only one owner so therefore it's in good condition.
6. The piano has had four owners so therefore it must be in poor condition.
7. The piano used to be owned by the guy who wrote the "Love Boat theme",
therefore it's more valuable.
8. If the keys have real ivory it must be a good piano.
9. "The salesman told me it's the same brand that Elvis owned so I know its
a good piano."
10. "They just don't make good pianos anymore".
11. "It was in tune when I bought it but then it went out. There must be
something wrong with it."
12. "I keep a jar of water under it so that it will stay in tune longer."
13. "I keep a jar of baking soda inside so that the sound board won't
crack."
14. "I have PERFECT PITCH so I know that this piano isn't tuned right."
15. "I always have the piano tuned flat so that it will last longer".
16. "I know it isn't a big deal to fix it, I read about it on the
internet".
17. If you restring a piano it will never sound as good as it did when it
was new.
18. "My piano has gotten used to the way I play it".
19. "This is the same piano my music teacher owns so I know its a great
piano."
20. "It's not played very much so it never goes out of tune".
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob & Helen Goodale <rhgoodale at embarqmail.com>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:40 am
Subject: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES
Here are a few common or reported piano wives tales. Feel free to add to the list if you have more.
1. Plates are made of solid brass
2. Cases are made of "solid" whatever the veneer happens to be, i.e. "For Sale: solid oak piano".
3. Full sized uprights are also called grands.
4. Any old piano MUST be valuable because everyone knows that antiques are priceless.
5. The piano has had only one owner so therefore it's in good condition.
6. The piano has had four owners so therefore it must be in poor condition.
7. The piano used to be owned by the guy who wrote the "Love Boat theme", therefore it's more valuable.
8. If the keys have real ivory it must be a good piano.
9. "The salesman told me it's the same brand that Elvis owned so I know its a good piano."
10. "They just don't make good pianos anymore".
11. "It was in tune when I bought it but then it went out. There must be something wrong with it."
12. "I keep a jar of water under it so that it will stay in tune longer."
13. "I keep a jar of baking soda inside so that the sound board won't crack."
14. "I have PERFECT PITCH so I know that this piano isn't tuned right."
15. "I always have the piano tuned flat so that it will last longer".
16. "I know it isn't a big deal to fix it, I read about it on the internet".
17. If you restring a piano it will never sound as good as it did when it was new.
18. "My piano has gotten used to the way I play it".
19. "This is the same piano my music teacher owns so I know its a great piano."
20. "It's not played very much so it never goes out of tune".
21. No one plays it anymore, so it doesn't need to be tuned.
22. The son of a my neighbor had a college roommate, whose father was a piano mover, and he said my Whitney spinet is worth $3000.
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