Felt quality

[David Ilvedson]

A question I am wondering about....with harder presssed hammers we open up the shoulders.   Do techs find they need to go back after some time and work the lower shoulders again?...they get compressed again with playing....obviously we need to work int he upper shoulders on a regular basis

...I have a Hamburg D I work on that I am not happy with the sound.   I think it distorts on forte playing...the mid shoulders seem pretty firm to me....I assume these are Renner Steinway hammers that have had a lot of needling in the lower/mid shoulder at the factory...this is from 1998, all original...I'm hesitant to make big changes, but I am headed that way...

Any suggestions...

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Richard Brekne" <ricb at pianostemmer.no>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Received: 10/15/2007 10:23:51 AM
Subject: Felt quality


>David.

>You yourself have mentioned several times that you could not quite get 
>the same sound from Wurzens as Bacons on C.Walter instruments. These are 
>hammers that are vastly more similar from the get go then hammers that 
>need needling down vs hammers that require lacquer to build power.  How 
>then do you find it difficult to accept that there is a clear 
>qualitative difference between a lacquered hammer and a non lacquered 
>hammer regardless of how much you work either ?

>I have to agree with Steinway themselves, folks like Andre Oorebeck, 
>John Patton, Eric Schandall, Jan Hoppner, and all the folks at 3 
>different acadamies I've attended.  Lacquered hammers and non lacquered 
>hammers will end up sounding different no matter what you do.  In fact 
>that is the real reason (tho perhaps not the origional) Steinway NY uses 
>lacquer.  Those boys tell me it is not easier... if anything a bit more 
>time consuming.

>Interesting that you point to a lack of stability in lacquered hammers. 
>Dale E. I believe takes the opposite tact here... as did the fellows who 
>spoke on the matter this summer at Oberlin.  Clearly this is a subject 
>matter that there is no real quantitative study done on.

>Cheers
>RicB



>        Yes and no.  I think it's slightly more complicated.  A Steinway
>        hammer
>        which is so soft that it requires a full immersion is different
>        than a
>        slightly soft hammer that may need reinforcement only on the
>        non-string-contact part of the hammer.  I'm not sure that it's
>        that easy to
>        tell the difference or that in the later case the sound is
>        qualitatively
>        different from a non-lacquered hammer--at least at the outset. 
>        Of course, a
>        hammer which is softer to begin with will have a different sound
>        than one
>        that is harder to begin with (especially between molding and
>        crown) but
>        since the harder hammer is often needled down and the softer
>        hammer requires
>        some playing time to develop properly, the ultimate difference
>        may be
>        negligible and the lacquer, at least when applied to the
>        shoulder area only,
>        may not provide a substantial difference.  At least that's my
>        experience.
>        Over time may be another story as the lacquer continues to
>        harden and the
>        shoulders lose some flexibility.  That's my main complaint.  Of
>        course, when
>        you do need to harden the hammer under or onto the strike point
>        I believe
>        that does change the character and even more so in terms of how
>        the hammer
>        ages.  

>        David Love
>        davidlovepianos at comcast.net
>        www.davidlovepianos.com



>    JD / Dale

>    And here you have the real reason for doping hammers.  Its a matter of
>    taste... purely subjective in nature and if done well will produce very
>    nice results that are somewhat different in end resulting sound.

>    There used to be a lot of folks trying to justify doping hammers by
>    asserting that you could get the same sound as needled hammers.  I am
>    glad I dont hear this kind of thing anymore myself, because it really
>    isnt true to begin with, and secondly... who should need such a
>    justification to begin with ? Steinway NY states outright that they
>    dont
>    get the sound they want without using soft hammers built up with
>    lacquer.

>    Dale and I have had many a talk on this subject and tho we have
>    different preferences... I'm know for a fact he gets a very nice sound
>    out of his approach.

>    In the end... regardless of the strong opinions any of us hold... piano
>    voice and response is a very subjective thing that has nothing at
>    all to
>    do with what the instrument was designed to do... what level of
>    loudness/harshness  or softeness/mellowness is achieved.  One persons
>    noise is anothers heavenly harp.

>    Cheers
>    RicB