Chopin's piano

[Farrell]

Thanks for the input Israel. You make many good points and have given me quite a bit to consider.

"Before making such over-broad categorical statements"

Please be aware that my only statement was that  "I wouldn't be surprised if a new Yamaha sounds more like the two-year-old Playel that a 150-year-old Playel does." That's perhaps more of a suggestion than a an attempt at a statement of fact. I'm quite aware of the general differences in construction and design of newer and these older pianos.

I certainly agree with your statement : "While the claims that "this is what Chopin heard" are probably exaggerated..."

You indicate that you have experience working "with pianos of the same era - some quite nicely restored with an eye to historical accuracy  - and from work with recently built replicas of older pianos". That is most certainly experience that I do not have. Perhaps my post makes that obvious and my comments were based in that ignorance. I would love to have the opportunity to give a serious listen to three levels of early pianos - all original (which I have heard), properly (authentically) restored, and accurate new reproduction. That would indeed be quite an educational opportunity.

Thanks again for your informative response.

Terry Farrell
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  Terry Farrell wrote:
    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
     
    One thing about these types of things amaze me though. The article's author implies that by playing this 150-year-old piano of Chopin, you can new hear the music exactly as Chopin heard it. So like this piano hasn't deteriorated at all in 150 years? The piano was two years old when Chopin was playing it. I wouldn't be surprised if a new Yamaha sounds more like the two-year-old Playel that a 150-year-old Playel does. Seems pretty kooky to me.
     
    I mean really. Think about it. We've all seen original 1880s Steinway A1s - multiple owners, neglected, worn out, moth eaten, hammers of swiss cheese, etc. Now what piano would sound more like a new Steinway A - the worn out 1880 A1 or a new Yamaha C3? I would argue the C3 - 'cause it sounds like a new decent piano.
     
    Flame Suit all zipped up tight!

  Dear Terry,

  Before making such over-broad categorical statements, you could at least examine the design and construction of Chopin's Pleyel and compare it to a new Yamaha. That Yamaha - like 99.9% of pianos today - is based on the "Steinway system" ideas of single piece bent rim construction, overstrung bass,  fairly light cast plate. This mode of piano construction pretty much pushed out all others by the turn of the 20th century (notable exception - Bosendorfer still retains some older features). Furthermore, that Yamaha has a modern double-escapement action, felt covered hammers with rather dense felt, high tension string scale.  I am not familiar with the particular instrument, but I would conjecture - from my knowledge of historical pianos - Chopin's Pleyel would be a straight-srung bass, most likely a composite 3/4 plate butted into the pinblock, three-piece rim jointed at the corners, much lower tension scale than used today, a single-escapement English action, leather-covered fairly soft felt hammers, need I continue? I can tell you from my work with pianos of the same era - some quite nicely restored with an eye to historical accuracy  - and from work with recently built replicas of older pianos that:

  1. Mid 19th century pianos do not now and did never sound or behave much like modern pianos - Yamahas, Steinways, or whatever. The success of the "Steinway system" at the Paris Expo in 1862 was  a watershed in piano construction that greatly changed the nature of the instrument over the next several decades (some European makers stuck with the older models through the 19-teens -but not later). 
  2. While a 150 year old piano will not sound exactly like it when it was new, much can be learned from how it sounds today about its original character in terms of tone, sustain, repetition, articulation, power, touchweight, etc. etc. Especially if some historically sensitive restoration work has been done on it. While the claims that "this is what Chopin heard" are probably exaggerated, much of the basic character remains - and it ain't nothin' like a modern Yamaha or anything else...

  So keep your flame suit zipped, because you are way off here...

  Israel Stein 
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