New bass strings, some dead

[PAULREVENKOJONES]

"If you want to know the truth, stop having opinions" (Chinese fortune cookie)


In a message dated 08/03/07 21:49:02 Central Daylight Time, formsma at gmail.com writes:
Paul, 

It's late tonight, I'm tired, etc. ....So if this doesn't make any 
sense whatsoever, please overlook it, and I'll fix it in the morning.
You've done a fine job, John. Much appreciated, but I do still have some observations/questions.

<g> 

Arledge said in his class that traditional string making methods 
require a twist in the string during installation.  Tradtional methods 
create a twist in the core as the copper is wound onto the core. When 
the copper is cut and crimped onto the core, the wire will "untwist." 
Hence, the need to put a twist back in the wire. 
If I picture this correctly, if I'm facing a winding lathe, if the copper is going to wind on over the top of the core wire spinning away from me, then the core (and the swage) would be twisted back toward me (against the direction of the winding) in some "calculated" manner before the wire begins to spin; it will then spin with that twist in it, and the copper will wind on to that twisted core from swage to swage. When the copper is spun on and crimped on the swage, at release, the core will "untwist"  either however much it has been pre-"back-twisted", or to a condition of calculated twist maintained by the spun copper held at the swages, or will return the string as a whole to a relative twist neutrality. I have experienced new strings which have obvious internal core twist and strings that have none; both have benefited from a twist at installation. Obviously, also, a certain amount of tension is necessary to keep the core tight. This tension, when released, would tighten the coils of the winding against each other when the string is made, thus releasing some of the core twist, but when re-tensioned during installation, would again separate the winding into the proper helix. But also when the made string is released and untensioned, that release will cause a different twist in the string in the direction fighting the crimp at the swage, i.e. trying to loosen the winding, and conversely, when tensioned during installation will create a bit of twist in the core simply by virtue of the swage-to-swage hold of the spun and tensioned copper. Again, my experience has been that the "natural" twist which can properly be made in a good bass string is insufficient to guarantee a tight coil, and to create the audible result of the balanced tensions of the core and the winding. 


If I'm remembering correctly, it has something to do with the tension 
at which the core was during winding in relation to the copper that is 
wound on it at that tension. That twist has to be restored for proper 
tone. 

Arledge's method of winding involves his special machine that keeps 
the core untwisted, and at the proper tension during winding. 
Therefore, the core wire is not under any twisting tension during the 
winding of the copper (as in traditional methods).  Hence, it doesn't 
twisting since it never was twisted to begin with. 
My feeling is that it has to have twist in it. If it doesn't, then the winding is inherently too loose. And therefore is a perfect candidate for a twist at installation, yes? Or am I just really screwy. Yes, you can answer that. But I'd like to know more about "special machines" and "special methodology". This is not doubt, but calculated skepticism, not cynicism. 


Hope this makes sense.  All I can think of now is that stupid song 
from the ... well, it was before my time so I'm not sure which decade 
it was from....  "Come on baby, let's do the twist..." <G> 
Chubby Checkers, "Twist around the Clock" (probably Arledge's song), or "Twist and Shout" (what happens when the string breaks during installation after 14 twists have been put into by someone who really, really doesn't get the program). 

Thanks for the effort to help me understand. I'd like for this to continue and get the definitive word from someone who really makes strings. 

Paul


JF 


On 8/3/07, PAULREVENKOJONES <paulrevenkojones at aol.com> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Terry and John: 
> 
> I'm curious why it is so important to string makers that they each and every 
> one over time has said that their particular strings don't need a twist in 
> them, when in fact in each and every case in my experience, a single full 
> twist has improved the sound of the string from it's untwisted condition. 
> Actually, I don't wonder at all, of course. James Arledge, Danny at GC, and 
> a few others, are really terrific scale guys and high-end, consistent string 
> makers. What's the big deal with a twist? It only makes sense to me to do so 
> unless there is a provable reason not to. What would that be? Does James 
> read this list? Could he chime in here? Do you guys know? 
> 
> Paul 
> 
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