Bluthner Tuning (long-winded rehash of unison tuning)

[Philippe Errembault]

Hi Ric, Hi Ssssssnnn :-)

About your problem of testing the impact of the aliquot string...
I'm not an experienced tuner, I'm just starting learning it, but I'm
quite good at physics...

1/ I've take a look on bluthner web site where they explain that 
on current pianos, the aliquot string is tuned unison with the other
strings (might be of use for a newbie trying to put his hands on
a Bluthner, having just read your discution, thinking he should raise 
it... never know how people can be ;-) )

2/ Why not asking them their opinion about this point ?

3/ The reason why the aliquot string could reduce the energy at first
making it last longer, is that it stores some and release it slowly...
So the "slowly" part only work if the frequency are very near.
so, instead of removing it to see what happens, why not just make it
far enought to have this process go faster (for an example, you could
tune it just half a tone higher or lower and it shouldn't have more impact
than the strings just above or under it.)

If you wanted to test the whole piano and not one string, then you could 
put the aliquot strings for an example, between two and three half tones, 
let's say, lower (you should just check that it doesn't match with any 
combination of low harmonics (I don't have a spreadsheet available right 
now to do it) but then, they wouldn't be at the same time physicaly and 
"frequentially" near other strings.

Philippe


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ric Brekne" <ricbrek@broadpark.no>
To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 12:49 AM
Subject: Bluthner Tuning (long-winded rehash of unison tuning)


> Ssssssnnn :)
> 
> Hmmm... I am not at all sure I buy your reasoning here.  I dont see how 
> you could possibly contrive a fair test comparing say a Bluthner Aliquot 
> instrument with any other non Aliquot instrument in the first place.  
> Perhaps you could do a statistical study comparing say 500 instruments 
> of each type and see if there were any significant (in the statistical 
> sciences sense of the word) tendancies... but one up on another leaves 
> way to many variables out there bubbling around.
> 
> On the other hand... if a piano designed with the extra string with the 
> express purpose of this increasing sustain.... well then one would at 
> the very least expect that if the extra string was removed then sustain 
> would go down.  Especially if one was to expect this same result if one 
> was to simply mute off the string in the first place me thinks.
> 
> But I underline... I'm no expert on the subject.
> 
> Curious to know tho... from whomever might know...  just how are the 
> ribs and soundboard designed for the fourth string.  Every Bluthner I've 
> ever run into had negative bearing for the 4th string... ie the darn 
> things were pulling up on the soundboard.
> 
> Cheers
> RicB
> 
> 
> Susan continues the dialouge with :
> 
> Well, yes but ...
> 
> I presume that the question we first asked each other was whether the
> fourth string aided sustain compared to a piano designed and built with
> only three strings in the high treble.
> 
> You can't take off the fourth string from a four-string piano and make it
> just like a piano originally designed for three strings. The bridges are
> spaced for four strings, and (I assume) the soundboard and ribs are
> designed for four strings.
> 
> 
> sssssssnnn
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