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Well I was told by a technician who rebuilds vintage pianos to check =
inside the piano to see if it is stamped somewhere a435, and it is. He =
is the one that gave me most of the information about the history of =
pianos being tuned at a435 in the late 1800's to early 1900's. So I =
posted to ask if any of you knew about this. In the mean time I went =
online and checked it out. I found the technician I talked to was =
correct. Another tech looked at the piano and agreed it was made to be =
at a435, it is clearly marked in the piano, but with new strings could =
be brought up to a440 plus needs new treble bridge. Plus he found two =
hair line cracks in the soundboard. He told me it being so old of a =
piano isn't worth fulling with. I found other websites talking about =
the history of pitch. I just typed in the search bar a435 and a bunch =
of sites came up. I know nothing about orchestras, except what I read =
online.=20
The piano was bought for a beginner student. Obviously not the best =
piano for a new student. From what information I have gathered from all =
of you it will take too much money to fix it up and then who knows what =
will go next in it. The technician who looked at the piano before it =
was purchased said it was in very good condition, needed a set of damper =
felts, set of bridle straps, a hammer replaced, and a new keybed and a =
tuning. He did the repairs listed and then the tuning. He said it will =
need 2 tunings a year and it should last another generation. Obviously =
he was very wrong. Because he was called out the next day because a =
ringing sound was being heard in one of the keys. He said it had =
hairline cracks in the treble bridge and wanted to do an Epoxy repair. =
I posted for the first time on this site to find out about such a =
repair. I am so glad I did. HE has never done an epoxy repair but =
wanted to try it for the first time on my piano. After all the advice I =
got from you all I called and told him no thank you. That is when he =
told me he knew about the cracks in the soundboard. I guess he forgot =
he didn't share that with me. That is when I decided to call out =
another tech to get a second opinion. The second tech told me about the =
cracks in the soundboard and he saw the a435 pitch marking and he saw =
the cracks in the treble bridge. So yea, I thought I was doing the =
right thing having a tech look at it before I bought it. But I guess I =
didn't pick the right tech. So I have stupid written across my =
forehead. Thank you all, you have been a great help to me in trying =
to decide what to do with this piano. The piano is beautiful on the =
outside but it is 115 years old. Now I am trying to figure out which =
brand of piano to buy for my daughter. They all cost soo much brand =
new. I am not brave enough to go with a used one again. After all the =
stuff I have read I am beginning to think she should just stick with =
guitar. I got so burned on a used piano.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Israel Stein=20
To: pianotech@ptg.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: A=3D435
At 11:00 AM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
I wrote right after that I meant a435. I did a typo in my first =
email. Sorry. It is written inside the piano on the medal plate beside =
the Sohmer symbol. This is a piano made back in 1890. I knew to =
check because a gentleman I called who rebuilds pianos told me to check =
inside to see if it was written or engraved, "A435" and it was. I did =
a history search and most composers including Chopin composed songs in a =
435 pitch. It was around the time of WW2 that the 440 became =
universally accepted. Before that 435 was most common but there was =
other pitches that were accepted as well. =
www.uk-piano.org/history/pitch.html Check out this website.
You might want to do some more thorough research than a web search - =
and examine the veracity of your sources. For example, the website you =
cite is no authority - just a fellow who posted some commonly available =
information who doesn't even claim to for it be complete. It's an =
interesting collection of factoids - not conclusive evidence.=20
There is very little evidence that any pitch was "most common" at any =
time before WW-I or maybe even II. One bit of evidence suggests that in =
the mid 1860's there were 5 different pitch standards in the city of =
Paris alone - 3 at the 3 different opera houses, one used by the Church =
and one by the military bands. A-=3D435 was an unsuccessful attempt to =
agree on a common "Concert" pitch, and no such agreement was achieved =
even on the concert stage - never mind in common practice. As to how =
common A=3D435 became is open to conjecture. (For that matter, it is =
rather questionable if A=3D440 today is very widely accepted on the =
concert stage - many wind instruments are being manufactured at higher =
pitches these days, and so pitch in orchestral contexts is being forced =
upward. We were forced to tune our concert instruments at San Francisco =
State University at A=3D441+ so that the wind players could tune to =
them...).
As for your claims about Chopin and "most composers" writing songs in =
A=3D435 - I would love to see some of those "songs" Chopin wrote. I'm =
not aware of any... Most of his output - at least as a mature composer =
- was for piano solo, where pitch made no difference. And since his =
favorite pianos were Pleyels, and your source cites Pleyel's pitch in =
1836 at A=3D446 - what gives? Did they drop their pitch just for him? Or =
did they drop it by 11 CPS sometime before 1849? Does the data even mean =
anything - did they only use that one pitch, or were they all over the =
place, and the other tuning forks were never found? See the perils of =
speculating about pitch in the 19th century?
Really, the question of pitch at various times is much more =
complicated than the oversimplifications you will find on websites. The =
push for standardizing pitch doesn't really happen until after the =
development of rail travel (and increased concert touring) all over =
Europe - 2nd half of the 19th century - and the problems that =
instrumentalists in various locations had tuning to each other. Even the =
evidence from surviving tuning forks is suspect - how do we know these =
were the rule rather than the exception, the common practice rather than =
the one-time experiment? We don't... And I suspect that piano companies =
recommending specific pitches were strictly promotional - to show that =
they are "with it" on the latest trends, not as any result of specific =
scale or structural design features. Theirs were "seat-of-the-pants" =
trial-and-error design methods - not precisely calculated engineering... =
Israel Stein
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