Recycled technology-cutoff bar

Erwinspiano@aol.com Erwinspiano@aol.com
Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:08:30 EST


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Happy New year Ron
   Great to hear from you & good of you to  remove your head from the piano 
long enough to post. It's always good to see  what's up/new
 Good Post & enjoyed the design in the pics.  Beautiful work. I especially 
liked the ideas about the beams & belly needing  more stiffnes from the maple 
ones you installed.. This makes a great deal of  sense to me. In hind sight what 
doesn't make sense is so much goes into a fine  laminated rim in some 
American pianos & then the belly rails so weak due  to  laminated softwoods. This has 
been in my mind for a while now. I'd  truly Like to here the 225 in the 
picture. After all design is great when the  end result produces a sound 
never/rarely heard before. I should think that a  piano so constructed should sustain 
for a very long time in every register with  tonal color to live for.
   Is this so?
   Looking at my Mason double A project I  notice just how toooo much board 
is behind the bridge. Its' simply cavernous.  It's not to late to put in a fish 
 This has got me thinking again. Is there  a percentage of board to remove 
formula that seems usual?
   Thanks & Blessings
    Dale Erwin

Terry, Dale and all,


>From what can be seen, that grand looks like a pretty well thought out  
design, with a better distribution of back beams and a generously dimensioned  
cross beam. And the brand name is?


Dale wrote;

Buy  the way what is the purpose of the wooden block filling in  the treble.  
It looks like it completely eliminated the treble board area or is it the  
picture?


Terry has fitted a treble section cut-off to reduce what I also regard as  
excessive sound board area behind the bridge in the treble section. If you  look 
at the panel-belly rail contact in the top string section, adequate  treble 
area remains. While it might look to be less than desirable to those  who are 
used to looking at Steinway pianos with the board removed, this piano  which 
Terry has worked on has a main-belly-rail section made from two  thicknesses 
glued together. There's a lot of belly rail acreage underneath  that treble 
section of the board.





The belly rail of our 225 piano is similarly constructed, with two 30 mm  
thicknesses of Rock maple glued together to produce a belly rail which is  
effectively a 60 mm thick section of solid maple. The entire belly rail  assembly in 
our piano is made from Rock Maple, while the cut-off is made from  Australian 
Antarctic Beech and Silky Beech.


An image of 225 piano no.4  with a 60 mm thick main belly rail  section can 
be found at;
http://www.overspianos.com.au/ctoff.html


With the Steinway D pianos from Hamburg, the belly rail comprises a  single 
30 mm thick section of Red Beech. I suspect that small total sectional  size of 
this piece is why Steinway glue the key bed to the belly rail, since  it will 
help what I suspect to be an under-engineered belly rail to support  the 
sound board.


An image of the '62 Hamburg D case we recently re-boarded can be viewed  at;


http://www.overspianos.com.au/stdctoff2.jpg


A similar treble cut-off to Terry's can be seen fitted to this piano. The  
laminated bass side corner cut-off reduces considerably the excessive sound  
board area of the original design, and the resultant 900 + mm middle order  ribs 
will better resist premature collapse. The original laminated sound board  
cut-off and belly-rail-sound-board-support-beam are made as single bent  
lamination, which is a good idea. As with Terry's modified sound board area,  we left 
the original cut-off in place since it won't do any harm. Furthermore,  it 
saves us having to insert stiffening sections across the cut-off fill  panel.


The original D's treble-section belly rail design can be seen better in  the 
following image.


http://www.overspianos.com.au/stdctoff1.jpg


In addition to the treble cut-off, we have fitted an extra back beam in  
place of the original 'Steinway bell' to better support both the belly rail  and 
the hitch plate of the iron plate in the top string section. With  reference to 
the image and text below, note the original construction of the  belly rail 
assembly.


The lower piece of the original belly rail is the 30 mm thick main belly  
rail beam of European Red Beech (which is also glued to the keybed of a D).  Then 
there is a 30 mm section of pine or some other light wood  (distinguishable 
in this image by the visible knott). This piece is necessary  to allow 
sufficient room in the action bay for housing the damper levers. This  piece is made 
from Rock Maple in our piano. Above this we see the laminated  Maple/Bubinga 
mahogany piece which supports the sound board across the belly.  The most 
surprising aspect of this design is why Steinway used such a  light-weight wood to 
join the main Red Beech belly rail span to the  Maple/Bubinga laminate.


Structurally, the belly rail/sound board connection, in all grand pianos,  is 
already at a strength disadvantage when compared to the rim, since there is  
considerable horizontal offset between the main belly rail member and the  
belly rail assembly's connection with the sound board. On this list, much  
justifiable ridicule has been levelled at several pianos of Asian origin for  using 
'select hardwood' Luaun in the rim, belly rail and back beams. The fill  piece 
of pine in this concert grand would seem not to be any better when it  comes 
to material strength. Could it be that since the pine piece can't be  seen in 
this concert grand once the sound board is installed, that it found  its way 
into the product as a cost cutting measure? Surely not!


Happy new year fellow listees,
Ron O.



 

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