If I'm bleeding to death I say sew me up first, we'll talk price later. David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 1:45 PM To: deanmay@pianorebuilders.com; pianotech@ptg.org Subject: RE: health insurance You guys are beyond belief.... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, California ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Dean May" <deanmay@pianorebuilders.com> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: 12/24/2005 6:20:49 AM Subject: RE: health insurance >Bruce, >Your emergency room observations are right on. >If you find yourself in need of emergency room treatment, it doesn't >hurt to negotiate up front. My brother had an accident with a circular >saw. He was operating a saw that had the guard broken. After making a >cut he had released the trigger so the blade was spinning down, but >before it stopped it got caught in his blue jeans. Since it was not >under power (which would have just made a clean cut) the jeans pulled >the blade into his thigh where it stalled ripping up his flesh. It was >ugly but miraculously he was in little pain, there was very little >bleeding and it had missed any arteries or nerves. >When he got to the emergency room of our local hospital he wouldn't let >them touch him until he knew how much it was going to cost. The entire >staff was dumbfounded because NOBODY ASKS THAT QUESTION!!! They finally >called someone in to negotiate with him. He said he was willing to have >his wife drive him 80 miles to an Indianapolis hospital, but he would >just as soon have it done locally. They negotiated a price of like $4500 >total (which was less than half normal) that would cover all hospital >expenses no matter how long his stay was. It would not cover radiology >(those guys have their own racket) or surgeon's expenses. >Once I had to take my son in for a broken arm because the orthopedic >doctor was in surgery that day so I couldn't do it in his office. The >doctor had an arrangement with the hospital to use the emergency room in >such cases. I asked up front if there was a cash discount. They told me >yes, I think it was around 30%. After treatment it took awhile to pull >the charges together but I paid them. They told me I shouldn't be billed >anything else and to let them know if I was. Sure enough 6 months later >(amazing how medical bills keep coming months after the fact) I got >another bill for around $200 which came from the billing office in >another state. After a few phone calls there and to the local hospital >they eventually canceled the charges. >Bottom line: Ask how much is this going to cost. Be willing to go to >another medical facility. Ask for cash discounts. Let them know you are >self pay. >Dean >Dean May cell 812.239.3359 >PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272 >Terre Haute IN 47802 >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On >Behalf Of Bruce D. Rempe >Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 12:06 AM >To: 'Geoff Sykes'; 'Pianotech' >Subject: RE: health insurance >Geoff, >I'm not sure what organization was offering you such a plan, but that >would >certainly NOT meet the technical definition of an MSA - or HSA. The >whole >idea of the MSA or HSA plan is that the money is yours and that it >accumulates. >The whole "big idea" behind the MSA/HSA plan is that you are spending >"your >own money" (or money that would otherwise be yours if you didn't spend >it on >medical expenses). The idea is to reduce needless and excessive medical >expenditures, and cause a "moment of cost/value consideration" before >you >consume medical services. >If you've ever been to a modern-day emergency room, then you know what >I’m >talking about. There's nothing more NON-emergency than today's modern >emergency room. The place is full of people who either have dollar-one >coverage from their insurance company, or they have no insurance or are >covered by some gov program. >Since they have no concern for the cost, they show-up every time they >have a >sniffle -- and sometimes when they don't. For many, the attention of >emergency room docs is the most attention they ever get. So, they are >there >with some frequency. >Combine this with the fact that the ER is the MOST EXPENSIVE way to >dispense >medical care, and you have a system who's costs are out-of-control. The >same "no cost/value concern" mentality (often called the >third-party-payer >syndrome) permeates every aspect of the medical system/industry, and >needlessly drives up the cost. >The MSA/HSA approach is to make unspent money yours. That way you spend >it >more cautiously, and with an eye toward value received per dollar spent. >If >everyone had an HSA plan, you can bet that medical expenses in this >country >would be a fraction of what they are today. >Sorry to "go off" on this topic. But, it's an issue that I've been >working >the ins and outs of for some years. I’m a HUGE FAN of the HSA approach. >I >have been an MSA/HSA customer of both Assurant and Golden Rule for quite >some time now, and both companies are respectable (from my experience). >There really aren't too many options for the self-employed. >All the best to you and yours during this holiday season!! >-bruce >Bruce D. Rempe >-----Original Message----- >From: Geoff Sykes [mailto:thetuner@ivories52.com] >Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:25 PM >To: 'Pianotech' >Subject: RE: health insurance >I was presented with a similar health insurance option at my last, (and >hopefully final), day job. It all sounded like a (too) good (to be true) >idea until I got to the fine print and learned that any money I had put >into >this "savings account", and subsequently did not use by years end, was >forfeit back to the insurance company. At the beginning of each year the >account started off empty and the insurance company got to keep >everything >that I had put in the account and not used the year before. And no I did >not >have the option to make withdrawals. It was a deposit only account with >accounts payable only directly to medical service providers via the >insurance company. Needless to say I did not sign up. Please tell us >that >this is not the case with your insurance company. On the other hand, if >you >DO get to rollover this account from year to year with no penalty, let >us >know how to contact these people. >-- Geoff Sykes >-- Assoc. Los Angeles >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On >Behalf >Of John Formsma >Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:47 AM >To: 'Pianotech' >Subject: RE: health insurance >Greg, >Having to submit your own bills is certainly something to consider - >hadn't >thought about that. Thanks, I'll ask about that. >We currently have Golden Rule HSA and have been satisfied with their >services. This other company (Assurant) is nearly half the cost >($120/mo. >for me and two kids), but I'm naturally wary because I don't know >anything >about this company. >David, The HSA is the way to go if there aren't many hospitalization >needs. >You get to save money in your own account that builds tax-free for >medical >uses. The idea is to use that money to pay for minor things like office >visits and smaller procedures. For instance, the plan I'm looking at has >a >$5,100 annual deductible with 100% coverage after that. Rather than pay >$300+ every month with a traditional plan, you save the difference in >the >savings account (like a medical checking account). Then you pay for >small >things from that account. (Ideally, you want to build up the account to >at >least the annual deductible amount so you have that readily available.) >Our >normal medical needs are less than $500 every year, so this plan is >great >since it offers catastrophic coverage at a cheap rate. >Susan, we're doing what you suggest. Eating around 90% organic/natural >foods, trying to get exercise, etc., saying "no" to prescription meds. >It >makes some sense to me to try to cover major medical needs, especially >since >I have two little ones for whom to provide. If it were just me, I >probably >wouldn't have insurance and would be saving up money every month to be >self-insured (I'm 35 and in good health as far as I know). >Thanks, all, for the suggestions. >John Formsma >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On >Behalf >Of Greg Newell >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:16 PM >To: Pianotech >Subject: Re: health insurance >John, > The HSA I use is thru Golden Rule. We get a check book with >which >to pay health cost that come out of the savings part of the plan. We >even >get something like 6% interest on the account. Not too bad in my book. >Others I looked at way back when made me submit bills for >re-imbursement. >Not as convenient as writing a check that's for sure. Take a good look >at >the lifetime ceiling benefit too. >best, >Greg >At 10:17 PM 12/22/2005, you wrote: >>This is business related, but it’s not piano related J >> >>What are you self-employed guys doing for health insurance? >> >>I’m currently looking at a different Health Savings Account (HSA) plan >>with Assurant Health – any negative experience with this company? It >used >>to be Fortis, from what I’ve been told. >> >>Thanks and Merry Christmas! >> >>John Formsma >Greg Newell >Greg's piano Forté >mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives _______________________________________________ pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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