Bruce,
Your emergency room observations are right on.
If you find yourself in need of emergency room treatment, it doesn't
hurt to negotiate up front. My brother had an accident with a circular
saw. He was operating a saw that had the guard broken. After making a
cut he had released the trigger so the blade was spinning down, but
before it stopped it got caught in his blue jeans. Since it was not
under power (which would have just made a clean cut) the jeans pulled
the blade into his thigh where it stalled ripping up his flesh. It was
ugly but miraculously he was in little pain, there was very little
bleeding and it had missed any arteries or nerves.
When he got to the emergency room of our local hospital he wouldn't let
them touch him until he knew how much it was going to cost. The entire
staff was dumbfounded because NOBODY ASKS THAT QUESTION!!! They finally
called someone in to negotiate with him. He said he was willing to have
his wife drive him 80 miles to an Indianapolis hospital, but he would
just as soon have it done locally. They negotiated a price of like $4500
total (which was less than half normal) that would cover all hospital
expenses no matter how long his stay was. It would not cover radiology
(those guys have their own racket) or surgeon's expenses.
Once I had to take my son in for a broken arm because the orthopedic
doctor was in surgery that day so I couldn't do it in his office. The
doctor had an arrangement with the hospital to use the emergency room in
such cases. I asked up front if there was a cash discount. They told me
yes, I think it was around 30%. After treatment it took awhile to pull
the charges together but I paid them. They told me I shouldn't be billed
anything else and to let them know if I was. Sure enough 6 months later
(amazing how medical bills keep coming months after the fact) I got
another bill for around $200 which came from the billing office in
another state. After a few phone calls there and to the local hospital
they eventually canceled the charges.
Bottom line: Ask how much is this going to cost. Be willing to go to
another medical facility. Ask for cash discounts. Let them know you are
self pay.
Dean
Dean May cell 812.239.3359
PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272
Terre Haute IN 47802
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf Of Bruce D. Rempe
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 12:06 AM
To: 'Geoff Sykes'; 'Pianotech'
Subject: RE: health insurance
Geoff,
I'm not sure what organization was offering you such a plan, but that
would
certainly NOT meet the technical definition of an MSA - or HSA. The
whole
idea of the MSA or HSA plan is that the money is yours and that it
accumulates.
The whole "big idea" behind the MSA/HSA plan is that you are spending
"your
own money" (or money that would otherwise be yours if you didn't spend
it on
medical expenses). The idea is to reduce needless and excessive medical
expenditures, and cause a "moment of cost/value consideration" before
you
consume medical services.
If you've ever been to a modern-day emergency room, then you know what
I’m
talking about. There's nothing more NON-emergency than today's modern
emergency room. The place is full of people who either have dollar-one
coverage from their insurance company, or they have no insurance or are
covered by some gov program.
Since they have no concern for the cost, they show-up every time they
have a
sniffle -- and sometimes when they don't. For many, the attention of
emergency room docs is the most attention they ever get. So, they are
there
with some frequency.
Combine this with the fact that the ER is the MOST EXPENSIVE way to
dispense
medical care, and you have a system who's costs are out-of-control. The
same "no cost/value concern" mentality (often called the
third-party-payer
syndrome) permeates every aspect of the medical system/industry, and
needlessly drives up the cost.
The MSA/HSA approach is to make unspent money yours. That way you spend
it
more cautiously, and with an eye toward value received per dollar spent.
If
everyone had an HSA plan, you can bet that medical expenses in this
country
would be a fraction of what they are today.
Sorry to "go off" on this topic. But, it's an issue that I've been
working
the ins and outs of for some years. I’m a HUGE FAN of the HSA approach.
I
have been an MSA/HSA customer of both Assurant and Golden Rule for quite
some time now, and both companies are respectable (from my experience).
There really aren't too many options for the self-employed.
All the best to you and yours during this holiday season!!
-bruce
Bruce D. Rempe
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Sykes [mailto:thetuner@ivories52.com]
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:25 PM
To: 'Pianotech'
Subject: RE: health insurance
I was presented with a similar health insurance option at my last, (and
hopefully final), day job. It all sounded like a (too) good (to be true)
idea until I got to the fine print and learned that any money I had put
into
this "savings account", and subsequently did not use by years end, was
forfeit back to the insurance company. At the beginning of each year the
account started off empty and the insurance company got to keep
everything
that I had put in the account and not used the year before. And no I did
not
have the option to make withdrawals. It was a deposit only account with
accounts payable only directly to medical service providers via the
insurance company. Needless to say I did not sign up. Please tell us
that
this is not the case with your insurance company. On the other hand, if
you
DO get to rollover this account from year to year with no penalty, let
us
know how to contact these people.
-- Geoff Sykes
-- Assoc. Los Angeles
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf
Of John Formsma
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:47 AM
To: 'Pianotech'
Subject: RE: health insurance
Greg,
Having to submit your own bills is certainly something to consider -
hadn't
thought about that. Thanks, I'll ask about that.
We currently have Golden Rule HSA and have been satisfied with their
services. This other company (Assurant) is nearly half the cost
($120/mo.
for me and two kids), but I'm naturally wary because I don't know
anything
about this company.
David, The HSA is the way to go if there aren't many hospitalization
needs.
You get to save money in your own account that builds tax-free for
medical
uses. The idea is to use that money to pay for minor things like office
visits and smaller procedures. For instance, the plan I'm looking at has
a
$5,100 annual deductible with 100% coverage after that. Rather than pay
$300+ every month with a traditional plan, you save the difference in
the
savings account (like a medical checking account). Then you pay for
small
things from that account. (Ideally, you want to build up the account to
at
least the annual deductible amount so you have that readily available.)
Our
normal medical needs are less than $500 every year, so this plan is
great
since it offers catastrophic coverage at a cheap rate.
Susan, we're doing what you suggest. Eating around 90% organic/natural
foods, trying to get exercise, etc., saying "no" to prescription meds.
It
makes some sense to me to try to cover major medical needs, especially
since
I have two little ones for whom to provide. If it were just me, I
probably
wouldn't have insurance and would be saving up money every month to be
self-insured (I'm 35 and in good health as far as I know).
Thanks, all, for the suggestions.
John Formsma
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:16 PM
To: Pianotech
Subject: Re: health insurance
John,
The HSA I use is thru Golden Rule. We get a check book with
which
to pay health cost that come out of the savings part of the plan. We
even
get something like 6% interest on the account. Not too bad in my book.
Others I looked at way back when made me submit bills for
re-imbursement.
Not as convenient as writing a check that's for sure. Take a good look
at
the lifetime ceiling benefit too.
best,
Greg
At 10:17 PM 12/22/2005, you wrote:
>This is business related, but it’s not piano related J
>
>What are you self-employed guys doing for health insurance?
>
>I’m currently looking at a different Health Savings Account (HSA) plan
>with Assurant Health – any negative experience with this company? It
used
>to be Fortis, from what I’ve been told.
>
>Thanks and Merry Christmas!
>
>John Formsma
Greg Newell
Greg's piano Forté
mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
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