This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Larry, I appreciate your engaging me and the list in intelligent discussion, = rather than childish name calling. I also appreciate that you are = arguing what your heart apparently tells you is the right thing. That = is your patriotic duty, as it is my patriotic duty to argue my point of = view. However, I must respectfully disagree with what you have said. In a = nutshell, I understand you to have made the following points: Point 1: You defended that our government, once founded, was perfect = the way it is, with whatever policies it might institute, and so there = is no room for discussion of any alternative course that we might take. = If this is true, then why do we have elections? Why did our framers = think it was necessary to have a "civil revolution" every 4 years? Why = did our framers feel it was important to write into our Constitution a = process by which the Constitution could be amended? Why did our framers = feel it was important to have a system of checks and balances, so that = the Congress could pass new bills, but the president had to sign them = into law, but if he vetoed the bill, the Congress could override his = veto with a sufficient majority, but ultimately the Supreme Court could = interpret those laws and, if appropriate, repeal them? Why did our = framers intentionally design a process by which our government could = evolve and perhaps even re-invent itself as needs arose? Were they = stupid? Point 2: You argued that those who dissent with the government are = unpatriotic and un-American, and that they are "enemies from within." = But then why does our governmental process encourage debate? Why do we = have free speech (or more accurately, why DID we have it)? Shouldn't = those who protest the government be arrested and jailed as enemies of = the state? What about our lawmakers? Before any bill comes to a vote, = it is debated *passionately* by Senators and Representatives from both = sides of the issue. You would argue, I think, that one side is wrong = and that the other side is right. A more reasoned and humble = perspective would be that people of good conscience can legitimately = disagree on an issue and that there is often no "absolute" right or = wrong. However, ultimately a decision is made. A vote is cast, and one = side loses, thereby officially becoming the "wrong" side. What would = you say of those dissenting lawmakers? Would you say they are traitors? = Enemies from within? If so, they should be arrested and jailed -- = convicted and never allowed to serve in public office again. Yes, = *that* would quash dissent, wouldn't it?! And what of the Supreme Court = justices who meticulously document their dissent with the government by = writing elaborate dissenting opinions? Are they traitors? Enemies of = the state? Or does it depend on whether they are "right" or "wrong" by = your way of thinking? Can you think of any Supreme Court decision that = didn't go as you would have liked it? Well, then the dissenting = opinion, defending *your* point of view, would be considered treasonous, = and the justice who wrote it should be thrown into jail. Right? Would = that be fair, in your view? Beyond that, we have points of agreement and disagreement: You wrote: > Patriots are also those who stand and ring the bell of freedom for the = oppressed in Iraq, and who ring the bell of warning that a traitor is on = the verge of being elected president.=20 Absolutely, and you are to be commended for that, if you truly believe = John Kerry is a traitor. And patriots are also the people like me who ring the alarm bell when = they feel an illegitimate president, never democratically elected, is = possibly on the verge of another coup d'etat, further endangering this = country for the sake of personal gain. That is my most sincere belief, = and that is why I take the time to argue with you over this issue. That = is why I go ON RECORD with the odious Department of Fatherland Defense, = and that is why I risk being interrogated by scary men in dark suits, = just like a friend of mine was for making an off-color joke about Mr. = Bush. You wrote: > And it is equally UNpatriotic to not speak up against those who are = too shortsighted to see the wolf at the door. Absolutely! You and I are both doing the right thing, here. We both = see danger, and we are both discussing it openly. We simply don't agree = on what the danger is. I wrote: >>It is UNpatriotic to accuse a person of being UNpatriotic or = UN-American for doing whatever his heart of hearts -- his deepest = conscience -- tells him is the right thing to do. It is UNpatriotic to = accuse someone of being anti-American, just because he doesn't conform = to your point of view. (How DARE you?!) To which your responded > But is that not what you're attempting to do now? I'll tell you how I = "dare", sister. *My* heart of hearts, *my* deepest conscience, tells me = that a man who came back from Vietnam and trashed his fellow soldiers = with lies and half truths for his own political ambitions is a traitor. Then you are not being unpatriotic, if you truly think Kerry was = "trashing" his fellow soldiers and being a "traitor." However, if you consider young Mr. Kerry's testimony with any depth, you = would realize that his quarrel was not with the soldiers who put their = lives on the line for their country. Indeed, he had and still has the = deepest respect for our soldiers. No, his quarrel was with the = government that was exploiting these young men for economic reasons, = fighting a war inhumanely in an arena where it did not belong. =20 Although Mr. Kerry has not made any statements on the matter, to the = best of my knowledge, I don't think he would be too critical of Ms. = England, who was front and center in the sexual humiliation/torture of = Iraqi prisoners. She was following orders. Rather, he would criticize = the chain of command that ordered her to do it. Personally, I would = hope that our young people have the decency and common sense to defy = orders when they are wrong, even if that means going to prison, but = realistically, most soldiers don't think they have any choice in the = matter. You have levied many criticisms against Mr. Kerry for his past policies. = However, those criticisms can be summarized by saying you did not agree = with the man. I think you believe that any *true* American -- any = *true* patriot -- should agree with you, hook, line, and sinker. Right? = Everyone else is a traitor? Do I understand you correctly? Finally, you have personally belittled Mr. Kerry at great length. You = will notice that I have largely refrained from belittling Mr. Bush. Is = it because I respect him? Absolutely not. Even though I detested = Nixon, I thought he had one or two good traits. Even though I hated = Reagan's policies, I found him rather "likable." Even though I = disagreed with George HW Bush (i.e. the father), I respected him. = George W Bush is the first president in my lifetime for whom I cannot = muster a single charitable word, except to say that I like his parents. = However, I will not stoop to call him a traitor or un-American. He is a = part of this political process, whether I like it or not. He has a = right, and even a duty to run for office, even though I pray we won't = have to suffer through another 4 years under his leadership. I think = the harm done internally to our system of government could possibly be = irreparable within our lifetimes and could even start us down a long = road towards revolution. What government will our children and = grandchildren ultimately have? We cannot assume that it will be a = democracy or that it will even be benevolent. Our government has its = problems, but it's a pretty sturdy and benevolent one. Let's hope it = will continue, and let's hope our citizens are wise enough to elect = leaders who do not use the Constitution as toilet paper. Yours in hope and patriotism, Sarah ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/dd/04/a3/41/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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