over-all tuning discussions, was How we hear

[Jenneetah]

Ilex (BTW, is that short for Ilexandria?),

Mind if I chime in, seeing as how I was the first one to mention 15 
seconds worth of listening.

At 9:53 PM -0400 10/25/04, Jenneetah wrote:
>So with a mezzo blow, the 7th came through just as clearly as with 
>my normal tuning blow, and I had plenty of sustain time to work with 
>the 7th (easily 12-15 seconds in the 3d octave).


At 12:55 AM -0400 10/28/04, ilex cameron ross wrote:
>When you say "15 seconds" - could you go into more detail? IE, are 
>you listening for 15 seconds to the unison each time you're moving 
>the pin until it's in place, or is the 15 seconds the final "test" 
>listen?

I'll only speak for myself. The 12-15 seconds I referred to was the 
total usable time of the 7th partials in the 3d octave of these two 
pianos. Were I to use the full time on each unison, to sit there 
patiently until the 7th disappeared, all the while spring loaded to 
bump the tuning hammer at the slightest motion in these partials, I'd 
be obsessively compulsive about it. 5 seconds tells me all I need to 
know. If 4.5 seconds later, I've detected a beat pulse in the 7th, I 
know that the first partial' corresponding beat rate would be ~31 
seconds, long after it has departed. RicB has said he rarely uses 
anything higher than the 4th; once again, 18 seconds is outside the 
life-span of that partial on most pianos. (Keep in mind we're talking 
3d-octave notes here.)

If I really wanted to get fussy about a unison, I wouldn't take a greater time listening to the 7th. I'd simply jump to a higher partial. In the 3d octave, 9ths, 10ths, even 14ths and 15ths are just as practical.

>I raise this question out of curiosity to anyone and everyone 
>reading this. I've actually sat there with a watch and timed my 
>unisons, and I can get about 3 trichord *notes* (five to six 
>unisons) done in a minute, on a really good day.

10 seconds per...that's not bad time. But once again, we're at the 
mercy of the relative quantities of pin and string friction. Also, 
you described bringing yourself up to speed on practice room pianos. 
David was talking about a recording studio situation. Very different 
pay scales.

>To me, there is always an odd twang at the attack of the note, even 
>when the unison is just barely phasing. When it's perfectly clean - 
>there's nothing but pure tone there. On a *good* piano, that is! ;)

Is this the rolling sound that a slightly-out unison will give you, 
when at the outset, the highest audible partial, the one with the 
shortest period beats first, then the next partial down with the 
length of its period next in line, on down through the entire ladder 
of partials to the first?

>Does anyone want to open the floor for discussion on high treble???

What, unisons or octaves?

At 10:56 AM -0700 10/27/04, David Love wrote:
>If I hear the unison opening up I mute first one side then the other 
>and compare to determine which side is out.  If both sides are 
>equally out then I mute the center string and if the outer strings 
>are clean it tells me that the center string has probably moved. If 
>I think the center string may have moved, I go back and double check 
>the interval tuning on that note.

David,
How often does it happen to you that infact the center string is 
where it should be, and it's the outside strings which have jumped. 
Not only that, but by identical amounts and in the same direction. 
Again, pianos defy our assumptions