> You state that you tuned your trombone, 1st position, to ET. I don't > understand. How does one tune a single note to ET? We tuned with a meter that was calibrated to A-440 ET. We tuned to Bb in the closed position. There is an exact ET frequency for this note. I haven't picked up my trombone for twenty years, but I think it was Bb below middle-C which has an ET frequency of about 233.082 Hz. > I play viola. I try to tune the four strings to each other in just fifths. But which string do you tune from? And what do you tune it to? If you tune the top string first (to something, I presume) and then tune the other three strings from it downward in just fifths, you will get a different four pitches than if you start at the bottom (tuning to something) and tune upward. You have to tune the first string to something; you can't just arbitrarily pick a pitch. And what about vibrato? Don > In playing, I don't think of tuning like a tuner, I think musically. I'm > not counting beats, but trying to achieve a musical harmony which is right > for that moment in that music. It would be interesting to analyse a > recorded performance and see what kind of intervals are actually produced. > I don't believe the just tuning of the open strings constrains me in any > significant way. Whether they are just, slightly narrow, or slightly > expanded, probably shows up more as "octave stretch" than as a temperament > decision. And, yes, I know most of the jokes about violas and intonation, > and have occasionally recognised myself. > > peace > > Mike > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Don Gilmore <dgilmore@kcmpi.net> > > To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Date: 4/5/2004 10:02:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Temperaments... > > > > It seems to me that you would want to tune/design wind instruments to ET. > > And I say this not to tout the Almighty Equal Temperament; I say this > > precisely because these instruments can bend pitches. I would think that > > you would design the hole layout so that a musician can avail himself of > the > > maximum pitch-bend range. > > > > If you lay out the entire range it would take to be able to bend a given > > note to produce a pure interval when played along with any other scale > note, > > the ET pitch of that note is *exactly* in the center. Isn't that where > you > > would want it? It seems silly to me to design the instrument to offset > this > > center sharp or flat from ET. What would be the point since you can bend > > the note anywhere you like anyway? I'm sure the range of possible bending > > for an accomplished musician is probably wide enough to cover the largest > > bend, even if the instrument is designed off-center, but again, why would > > you do this? > > > > A previous poster mentioned that bassoons are tuned for "just intervals". > > This doesn't even make sense. Just in what key? Just between which > notes? > > I don't see how this is practical, or even possible. Even a monophonic > > instrument has to be able to play in all twelve keys, in harmony with > other > > horns. > > > > I played the trombone in high school and college band and first position > > (closed slide) is always tuned to ET. Violins can alter notes by changing > > the position of their fingers on the string, but what about open strings? > > Don't they tune them to ET? And if not, why not? They have no control > over > > them while playing at all. > > > > I'm not saying that ET sounds better than pure intervals. Of course it > > doesn't. But it seems to me that you must have a central base to work > from > > to be able to play in all keys. A scheme that might make one key easier > to > > play pure intervals in would necessarily make another key more difficult. > > Why would you do this? > > > > Don A. Gilmore > > Mechanical Engineer > > Kansas City > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Koval" <drwoodwind@hotmail.com> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 8:22 AM > > Subject: Temperaments... > > > > > > > This whole temperament thing is such a tiny niche of the world, even > among > > > tuners! I went through all my years of study as a bassoonist, assuming > > that > > > ET was the norm, yet we trained for listening and adjusting to Just > > > intervals. It wasn't until I really dug into the subject a few years ago > > > that I realized that ET only exists in fixed pitch instruments, such as > > the > > > piano and organ. So much of the discussion is framed by what we THINK > is > > > the norm, not what actually IS the norm. Think about that a minute. > Not > > > in orchestras, not in bands, not in choirs, not in ensembles, ONLY when > > the > > > piano is brought into the mix does ET enter the picture. > > > > > > It becomes so obvious when you think about the speed of the thirds that > we > > > work so hard to control on the piano. Do you think that an > > instrumentalist > > > would change the speed of the beating of the third, based on where in > the > > > scale it lies? How impossible would that be?! I can just imagine: > > "Let's > > > see, I'm in the key of F, so the tonic should beat at 7bps, but the > > dominant > > > should beat at around 10 bps... but wait, that's only in one octave... > oh, > > I > > > missed that measure, what's the next note?" > > > > > > That means, even though ET is accepted everywhere as the norm, it really > > > occupies a very small corner of musical expression in the world. Anyone > > > that tries to introduce an alternate tuning runs into the brick wall of > > > ignorance about the specifics of musical tuning. > > > > > > I feel that at this point, the best thing I can do is to speak directly > to > > > pianists about the existance of playable temperaments. I hope to > develop > > an > > > article to submit to the magazines that cater to pianists. Something to > > do > > > with temperaments as just another way for them to add contrasts to the > > > music. So much of what we do already as techs give pianist greater > > > contrasts, either through regulation, voicing, tuning, or rebuilding. > > > > > > Ron Koval > > > Chicagoland > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - > FREE > > > download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >
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