now what?, (hammer choices)

antares@euronet.nl antares@euronet.nl
Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:37:39 +0200


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Aside from the sound, there is another aspect to a hammer change on a=20
Yamaha : the weight.
I have done countless hammer changes on Yamaha grands and only one time=20=

had a bummer with Yamaha hammer heads which had been glued too far out=20=

on the shanks, clearly a factory mistake.
Otherwise, all hammer sets I used, were beautifully glued, needed=20
relatively little work and always sounded right.

Furthermore, the price of a Yamaha complete hammer assembly is still=20
very reasonable compared to what Steinway or B=F6sendorfer asks for=20
almost the same material and work. I have followed the discussion about=20=

price but to me it always seems better to change hammers and shanks at=20=

the same time, because the centers are brand new and the hammer rolls=20
too, resulting in a reliable regulation and touch.
And, as I said, the weight is very important too, so when we buy Yamaha=20=

hammers for a Yamaha, it is always ok.

So. when a hammer change is needed for a Yamaha, why not go with the=20
good old trusted flow?
1. the price is reasonable (according to me)
2. the weight is always healthy and no leading or, whatever, is needed=20=

afterwards
3. installing and regulating the new Yamaha set can easily be done=20
within a day including a tuning and first voicing and does not require=20=

days of extra work like with a Steinway
4. the final result is : a better Yamaha then before, a happy customer,=20=

a happy tech with a very interesting and challenging job which pays=20
well too.

So why bother with 'strange' hammers that have to be glued and after=20
all take much more time than the ready made perfect set.

Just a question, in response to what I read about this subject.

antares
the Netherlands

www.concertpianoservice.nl




On zondag, sep 7, 2003, at 00:59 Europe/Amsterdam, Erwinspiano@aol.com=20=

wrote:

> In a message dated 9/5/2003 4:21:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
> A440A@aol.com writes:
>
> Subj: now what?, (hammer choices)
> Date: 9/5/2003 4:21:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From: A440A@aol.com
> Reply-to: pianotech@ptg.org
> To: pianotech@ptg.org
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> So, my C-3 customer that is getting new hammers sez he certainly=20
> doesn't
> want them to sound like new STeinway hammers, which to him are too=20
> soft and
> round sounding,=A0 and he doesn't want the glassy sound that comes =
from=20
> the studio
> C-7's with use and lacquer all over them them.=A0=A0 His knuckles and=20=

> shank pinning
> are too good to throw away, so the stock Yamaha hammers are not the=20
> ticket.=A0=A0
> =A0 I am trying to make a decision between Piano-tek's =
Imadagawa,(which=20
> I have
> used quite a bit of in the past), and their Abel "Standard" series.=A0 =
He
> records this piano in his business, and he wants it to be brilliant=20
> without being
> harsh from the get-go.=A0 I know I can needle the Imadagawa's=A0 to=20
> virtually
> anywhere I need them, but am intrigued by the Abel.=A0 The only sets I=20=

> have heard
> that I liked had been played a lot.=A0 Do they start out needing a =
fair=20
> amount of
> use to develop?=A0=A0
> =A0 Anybody wanna make a suggestion between these two?
> Thanks,
>
> Ed Foote RPT
>
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ed
> =A0=A0=A0=A0 OK.=A0 I guess I'll be the contrairian and say that I =
have more=20
> people requesting the removal of the Abels in favor of the sound you=20=

> say your client wants. The complaint is too loud too harsh.=A0 Often=20=

> it's true the voicing hasn't been worked on enough but also the Abels=20=

> I've worked with take sooo much needling (pulverizing) what could=20
> possibly be left of the reselience we say is important. Dunno
> Though I'm keenly aware of anti -lacquering sentiments among many The=20=

> Isaac hammer and Ronsen hammers at times even though they might=20
> require light solutions produce a sound that is voicing stable and=20
> neeling is accomplished easily. Any tech following a properly treated=20=

> set of these hammers should not have trouble needling as needed and=20
> nor shoulf=A0 the lacquer be detected unless it was of course over =
done.=20
> I personally find clients attracted to this kind of a sound which is=20=

> clear=A0 and strong but not glassy or too round. If you guys=A0 are=20
> getting this kind of sound with some version of Abels I don't know=20
> about please enlighten me.!!
> =A0=A0=A0=A0 In spite of that comment I've worked on sets that even =
after the=20
> pulverizing sounded very good (Mason & Hamlin A) ,however that set=20
> required substantial & relatively deep needling across the top of the=20=

> hammer thru out the tenor & treble but not as much in the bass.
> =A0=A0 As Del & others have intimated previuosly, the stiffness of =
hammer=20
> required to produce a specific kind of sound in any=A0 piano really=20
> depends on the soundboard stiffness and other factors.
> =A0=A0=A0=A0 I currently have a 6 ft 6 inch grand in house that has =
Abels that=20
> have been needled nicely=A0 and=A0 great deal by a previous tech.but =
the=20
> client is unhappy with the brightness=A0 & is considering changing =
them.=20
> Another extenuating factor is that the hammers were made very light=20
> (on purpose-geometry)(note 52 is 5.3 grams) resulting in the problem=20=

> of not enough mass to push the string in a piano this large with a=20
> sound board this stiff. They sound fairly good (especially in the=20
> bass) but the client has a bright room and these particular hammers=20
> have more than one problem (toostiff too light)creating an unpleasant=20=

> sound in the treble. The other piano in shop is a Conover 77 & has=20
> either a set is of Abels or Imdagawa. The hammers are relatively new=20=

> and incredibly difficult to get needles in the high tenor & treble.=20
> The sound is strident. I can't detect any lacquer/plastic solutions.=20=

> Again the client is displeased with the sound after the new hammers=20
> were installed. I will try to needle them but with felt that stiff its=20=

> often not productive nor fun.
> =A0=A0 Hey Ed I'm sure you probably don't need my advice but this is =
my=20
> two cents worth. Let us know how what you decide on in=A0 the C-3 and=20=

> how it comes out.
> =A0=A0 Dale

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