Gordon,
Last year, under the emotional stress of Sept 11, I posted, in response to
the appearance of this thread, a somewhat similar analysis of the Arab/Israeli
conflict and its corrosive effects on the relationships of the West and the
Moslem world. I encountered, substantially, the same uncomprehending
antagonism, but expressed in private posts, as you have. I, for one, think your
opinions have merit, do exhibit critical thinking skills, are well informed and
demonstrate, plainly, freedom from, what appears to me, at least, a
considerable prejudice that exists in the opinions of some others, or at least
an unwillingness, to objectively, analyze the facts.
Nowhere else in the world is a population of the size of the several
million Palestinians kept under lock and key, now for several generations,
arbitrarily denied basic rights and necessities, forced to suffer the daily
inidignities of inspection and regulation, made to suffer murderous killings of
innocents and other forms of various collective punishments (a good example is
the Israeli rocketing of a car outside a school killing ten or fifteen innocent
children), and be required to witness and acquiesce in the increasing
deprivation of their own land as it is seized piece by piece by an alien
culture., etc. etc. - the list goes on but it is of little use to enumerate it
here.
All of this is completely contrary to the basic norms of American
political consciousness and values, and, ordinarily, would cause a tremendous
uproar on the issue of human rights, self-determination, civil rights, the rule
of law, etc.etc, and that it is not well perceived in the United States as a
cause for such an uproar, is plainly a demonstration of prejudice. This
prejudice is the prejudice of egoistic religious selfishness masquerading as
devotion and a secret satisfaction on the part of fundamental Christians, that
"the bible is coming true". It exists in various forms, in all three faiths,
Christian, Jewish and Moslem. It enables the complete disregard by many in
the United States of the fundamental facts and, the essential, complete,
wrongness of the effects of our bias and support of Israel, in the context of
the ordinary, "compassionate, etc," value structure which is so widespead to
some degree or the other. It also enables the Jewish "settler", himself many
times an American fanatic out to recreate the Wild West, to rationalize the
theft of others land, and justifies to the dispossessed Moslem, recourse to
indiscriminate violence. To me,. this is all religious thuggery but, once
again, one can ask: Where does it originate? All I can see, for which I am
sure I will be roundly comdemned, is the determined attempt steal other
people's land. We should not associate ourselves with such thievery, and if we
do, we should not be so naive as to expect it to be without price.
A case in point which is demonstrative of this hypocrisy: One which is
ridiculous but illustrative nevertheless: So "sensitive to national and ethnic
sensitivities" are we, collectively, that a law exists which has required the
collection of many intellectually valuable old skeletons or fragments,
previously studied in museums and academic institutions from which useful
scientific information has been and continues to be gleaned, to be returned to
their "native" tribe thereby to experience, presumably, an "honored" burial and
demonstrate, collectively, our regard to ethnic sensitivity. What a joke! The
loss to science is tremendous. At the moment, a c. 9,000 year old skeleton
exists which has been claimed for "reburial" but which is, at present, a
subject of litigation, because it displays perplexing Caucasian characteristics
which are not those found in "native" skeletons: this is an anthropological
problem of significance, and the court action is required to enable this very
worth subject to be given further study and not be, immediately, tendered to its
"native" group. What nation has existed without substantial transformation for
9,000 years. It is laughable.
That the Palestinians take recourse to murderous violence is both
reprehensible and regrettable but one can ask what would an American do if this
was an American population similarly situated - that is a population which is
ardently attached to guns and which still mutters the mantra "Give me liberty or
give me death".
I think it unlikely for American policy to become more evenhanded at the
moment, even though, in my view, we are wrong, and, since our bias will continue
and its effects, along with Israeli policy will promote, in reaction, more
extreme terrorist acts in response, then we should, as a practical matter,
destroy the Iraqi regime along with the Baath party which provides its
ideological underping, in order to reduce the threat. They will continue to
represent a dangerous focus of Moslem antagonism, dissembling what is, perhaps,
a just hatred, where necessary as they have done in the past. But where does
this stop? The hard-liner Iranians are equally antagonistic, and capable of
becoming a much more competent danger. The Saudi's are becoming progressively
more radicalized, as is the entire Moslem and Arab world, which maintains a
veneer of friendliness to the West for practical reasons. Thus, one is lead to
question the adequacy of the policy that has led to this point. How many
innocent Americans, indifferent, in general to all of this, must die before the
obscuring prejudice upon which their policy is based is lifted? I certainly
don't think anyone I know or am attached to is worth such a price in order to
satisfy such a religious fantasy.
This will be my only post on this particular subject, regardless of the
bombs tossed in my direction, as I really do think there is already enough
controversy encountered on this list, even when the field of discussion is
contrained to technical subjects.
Regards. Robin Hufford
David Love wrote:
> Nobody argues with your right to express your opinion, but this really isn't
> the forum for proselytizing. Whether I think your opinions have any merit,
> exhibit any critical thinking skills, are well informed, or are subject to
> blatant prejudices is another matter altogether.
>
> David Love
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gordon stelter" <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>
> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: November 16, 2002 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: OT better Off List: was Re: Pray for the good guys ...
>
> Funny how everyone is allowed to express opinions
> here but me.....
> So I'll only warn that WE (the US) are seen,
> rightly or wrongly, by most of the world's people as
> THE No.1 global bullies! Especially now that our
> "president" has backed out of myriad treaties on:
> nuclear weapons, the environment, the world court,
> etc., etc., etc.. It is therefore YOU, not I, who is
> naive in thinking that we can continue in such blatant
> arrogance, while simultaneously remaining safe from
> fanatics!
>
> "Don't worry about the US. We've got them in our
> pocket. We can do anything we want to the
> Palestinians, and the US won't intervene!"
> Arial Sharon, to his Parliament, earlier this year.
>
> "I'll make a Pastrami sandwach out of them!!!" Arial
> Sharon to Winston Churchill III, when asked what he
> would do with Palestinian civilians in areas invaded
> by Israel in violation of UN resolutions.
>
> If you support such barbarity, and Israel's
> perpetual bulldozing of homes, orchards, wells etc.,
> then you are not an honorable member of any valid
> religion of which I know! And most especially the one
> which purports to represent Jesus!!! I am hardly alone
> in this assessment: ALL of my friends in the
> mainstream clergy agree, and innumerable unknown
> others worlwide. Amnesty International, a gravely
> serious and well informed organization, has just
> accused Israel of war crimes. Thank God.
> Thump
>
> --- David Love <davidlovepianos@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Come on Gordon, leave your own naive prejudices and
> > scapegoat politics off
> > the list.
> >
> > David Love
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "gordon stelter" <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: November 15, 2002 5:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pray for the good guys ...
> >
> >
> > 3,000 children have died of starvation in Iraq each
> > month due to the sanctions. Iraq would never attack
> > anyone again, as they know they would be instantly
> > incinerated. We support a state in the mid-east
> > that
> > abuses its populace,(far worse and with more
> > regularity than Saddam has-- the alleged gas attacks
> > may have been Iranian) ignores UN sanctions and
> > DEFINITELY has weapons of mass destruction! Its
> > called
> > Israel.
> > Our grotesquely biased support of Israel is the
> > #1 reason the terrorists what to kill us. An
> > unbiased
> > policy wpould cost NOTHING, and save billions in
> > money
> > wasted killing Muslims, which will only harden the
> > rest to attack us, everywhere, for all eternity.
> > Of course its about oil.
> > Gordon Stelter
> >
> > --- Robert Goodale <rrg@unlv.edu> wrote:
> > > Uhhh, am I hearing this correctly? Sadam killing
> > > tens of thousands of his own people, harboring
> > > terrorists, arming 10 year olds with assault
> > rifles,
> > > and building nuclear weapons with the intent of
> > > using them has something to do with oil companies?
> > > Are you praying for "long life" of the regime or
> > the
> > > bombers? I hope I am greatly misinterpreting
> > this.
> > >
> > > Rob Goodale, RPT
> > > Las Vegas, NV
> > >
> > > Elections are over Ric. The oil companies won
> > > again.
> > >
> > > I'm praying for the suicide bombers.
> > >
> > > I pray they will live a very long life.
> > >
> > > Keith R
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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