Sure sounds like something is moving. If you find out just what, I'd like to know. I always clamp the key frame to make sure it is in contact with the bench. Sometimes even in the middle of the front rail. I haven't actually leveled that many keys. It's more fun to make tools than to use them. I'm only half joking when I say maybe you should use go bars all over the frame. The problem, as someone suggested, in leveling in the piano, is that there is no room to install the weights on the backchecks, the stack isn't on (that may affect the height) and you have to sit so low that it is uncomfortable. I'm assuming you use the weights hanging off the backchecks. They are probably heavier than the stack. All these small variables add up, but I still feel doing at least the major leveling on the bench is more productive. Especially when you are refelting the whole keybed. Let me know if you come up with any ideas as to why that is happening. Thanks; Carl Meyer Assoc. PTG Santa Clara, California cmpiano@home.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 8:00 AM Subject: Re: key leveling -- crown? > I've been doing all my key leveling on the bench also Carl - but with mixed > results. I thinks most of it depends on how flat the keybed is. But now I've > got a 1970s G.Steck Aeolian grand keyboard on my bench that I am regulating > & key leveling. > > I bedded the keybed real good in piano before bringing to shop. Re-check > bedding on regulating table - pretty good - presumably piano must have flat > keybed (my regulating table is dead-on-flat). Remove stack, remove black > keys. Hmmmmmmm, bedding not so good now, seems center rail has risen up a > bit - reset glide bolts. Set my two end keys at 2-1/2 inch height, level > white keys. Remove all white keys except for couple on end and several here > and there to observe white key/black key height relationship, install all > black keys. Put level stick on WHITE keys and Wowha - all white keys are now > low - like in the 0.025" range. Check center rail - center rail is a tad off > regulating table. OK, so apparently the center rail flexes up and down, and > removing the white keys allows the center rail to go up a tad. But why then > would the white keys go down - they should go up. > > But that is not the point. The point is clearly leveling keys is best in > piano - but I just love the bench. What about a dummy fake stack thingee > that you can place varying amounts of weight on to simulate the fully loaded > keybed. This would at least eliminate the problem of any keyframe flexing on > the bench. You would still have potential trouble with warped keybeds, but > this might help. Wadddayathink???? > > Terry Farrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Meyer" <cmpiano@home.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: key leveling -- crown? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Isaac OLEG SIMANOT" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:35 AM > Subject: RE: key leveling -- crown? > > > > Not only Steinway consider good new keyboard leveling will show a little > > arch in the middle. > > Klaus Schimmel does too, so Seiler, so other German makers, and their key > > bed is not arched. > > > > Thanks Isaac, I didn't know that. Glad to hear that me and > Steinway aren't the only dumb Germans around. > > So how is it that those who arch their key level and not the bed compensate > for the shorter penetration of the key pin into the mortise? Do they arch > the height of the key pins or make the key thicker? > > > > > In fact on Steinway we may use and arched rule because of the arched > keyed > > only, they don't pretend it is for the future wear of the balance > bushings, > > that is other makes that pretend (?) that. > > And may be is it only for visual effect ! > > If you use an arched rule to level the keys on a flat bench, you will have a > double arch when you put the action back in the piano. A Steinway rep told > me "you can't level the keys outside the piano, It's not accurate enough." > Well, DUHHH! > > Unless it's just a touch up, I always level keys on the bench. That's the > only efficient way to do it. I remove the stack, clamp the frame to the > bench, and use weights on the back checks. Of course touch up may be > required after the stack is reinstalled and the action put back in the > piano. > > I try my best to simplify my life but it seems there are those that keep > wanting to complicate it. Oh, Well!! > > Regards > > Carl Meyer Assoc. PTG > Santa Clara, California > cmpiano@home.com > > > > > Regards. > > > > Isaac OLEG > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part > > > de Carl Meyer > > > Envoyé : vendredi 16 novembre 2001 21:07 > > > À : pianotech@ptg.org > > > Objet : Re: key levelling -- crown? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Dick , it was Steinway that did that. However it was done > > > to make the > > > key level line follow the crown in the keybed, which was put in to > ensure > > > full contact (spring loaded) of the action frame to the bed. > > > > > > Had it been to compensate for felt compression, wouldn't it be > appropriate > > > to have a schedule of releveling according to age or mileage? Maybe > 1/16 > > > initially, then after 50000 songs we relevel to 1/32. Then after > another > > > 50000 songs to1/64? Now, if the key frame is refelted we must start the > > > schedule all over again. Damm!!! nobody told me that they'd refelted > this > > > keybed!! > > > > > > I've been trying to kill this legend for several years now. It's hard > > > because at first glance it seems so "impressive" so "logical" so > > > "sophisticated" and it was of course Steinway that did it. Was it > really > > > necessary to crown both the bed and the key frame or would it have been > > > sufficient to but more crown in the key frame? Does Steinway > > > have a patent > > > on that? I doubt it. Does any other company use that technique? I > don't > > > know of any. > > > > > > If you haven't guessed yet, I think crowning the key bed is a > > > dumb idea. It > > > was a complicated, expensive, confusing and just silly solution to a non > > > existent problem. > > > > > > Maybe they would rather we say bad things about them than to say > > > good things > > > about some other brand. Politicians always say "Say anything you > > > want about > > > me, just don't misspell my name". > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Carl Meyer Assoc. PTG > > > Santa Clara, California > > > cmpiano@home.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dick Beaton" <rbeaton@initco.net> > > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: key levelling -- crown? > > > > > > > > > > All... > > > > I recall the reason for doing this is that the middle of the piano > gets > > > > played more than the ends. In time it will even itself out as the felt > > > > center rail punchings flatten out more. As I recall, it was > > > Steinway that > > > > did this. > > > > Dick RPT MT > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Charles Neuman <piano@charlesneuman.net> > > > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:00 AM > > > > Subject: key levelling -- crown? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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