Oops?

[Farrell]

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It is hard to believe you end up with a piano at targeted pitch. Your =
description appears to defy laws of physics. Consider the top two of =
four sections on the grand. If the whole piano was 100 cents flat, =
starting at A0, by the time you get to the upper treble those notes will =
be 120 or more cents flat. Raise them to targeted pitch, and they will =
fall a good 33%, or 40 cents by the time you finish your first pass. =
Treble now 40 cents flat. Start second pass targeting standard pitch, no =
overpull. Treble will be at least another 10 cents flat by the time you =
get there, so it will be 50 cents flat. Raise treble to standard pitch, =
and they will fall a good 33%, or 17 cents or so. The treble is now 17 =
cents flat after the second pitch-raise pass.

Now you start your tuning pass with the treble 17 cents flat? Tenor will =
likely be in the 10-cent flat area. If, on the tuning and final pass you =
do not add any overpull, you will still end up at least 3 cents flat in =
tenor and somewhere between 5 and 10 cents flat in treble.=20

I have yet to see a piano that varies significantly from the above =
description. Am I missing something?

"......am I concerned about the quality or stability of the tuning?"

Hmmmmm. Why do you not use any overpull to get the piano to pitch?

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: David Ilvedson=20
  To: pianotech=20
  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:23 AM
  Subject: Re: Oops?


  I am in the minority, but I don't raise above pitch at all...If -100 =
cents, I take a my FAC readings with those notes at correct pitch then =
bring each string up to a correct pitch as per SAT from A0 to C8...if =
the tenor isn't as flat as the rest of the piano it doesn't get raised =
any higher than any other part of the piano.  So when I go through it a =
second time it is about 10 to 15 cents flat (I don't really care =
where...the piano decides that but it isn't anywhere near 30 cents =
flat!) and I go through it again to pitch.  The bass is now reasonably =
stable and a quick 3rd time through the tenor/treble and I'm done with =
the initial tuning...see ya in 3 to 6 months...am I concerned about the =
quality or stability of the tuning?  I don't think so...I didn't let it =
go for 15 years...it's not my problem...I don't use a temp strip, just =
mutes and tuning unisons as I go...

  David I.

  *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

  On 11/5/01 at 7:35 PM Billbrpt@AOL.COM wrote:
    In a message dated 11/5/01 6:16:31 PM Central Standard Time, =
davidlovepianos@earthlink.net (David Love) writes:=20


      Also, so that those who are not familiar with your style of tuning =
are not mislead, the standard pitch raise function should get the treble =
sharp enough if you measure/reset frequently on the way up and if you =
are using standard stretching.  I recall that you mentioned that in your =
tempered octaves tuning you are +75 cents by the time you get to C8.  =
Those tuning with normal stretch are more likely to reach only +40.  For =
your system that would require additional stretch going up.  For others, =
they would end up considerably sharp of the target and have to do a =
lowering before a fine tuning.


    Yes, but bear in mind that most of the time I use a more =
conventional amount of stretch.  The triple octave/double octave and =
fifth comparison is only for when I wan the absolute maximum and =
justifiable amount.  =20

    Once I get into the last part of the 7th octave, all bets are off.  =
But let's take a piano that is 1/2 step flat in the midrange.  That's =
100%.  Very often, such a piano is not evenly low in pitch.  The high =
treble may easily be 150% flat.  Now add 30 cents for the high treble =
for the usual amount of stretch.  We're up to 180% now, which =
theoretically would take +60 cents overpull.  Yipes!=20

    Maybe on a new or newly strung piano but even then, I'd prefer to =
work my way up.  The danger of breaking a string or splitting the bridge =
on the poor old Betsy Ross is simply too great.  Add to that the kind of =
test blows needed to settle such a change and you'd be bustin' those =
elbows or breaking the keys themselves at the balance rail.=20

    It all adds up to a claim that I would really like to see =
substantiated:  a 100% pitch raise in 2 passes that comes out "dead on". =
 I'm not from Missouri but *show me* anyway.=20

    Bill Bremmer RPT=20
    Madison, Wisconsin

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