SV: The JC ET part 1

[Ola Andersson]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Richard Moody <remoody@midstatesd.net>


> One demonstration is worth 1000 words.  I guess I don't understand how
> F3 can be tuned 2bps flat when you are trying to find the correct rate
> of A--C#.  It seems it is easier to recognise the A--C# beat rather
> than guessing at F3--A3 being two beats flat.   A3 is tuned to the A4
> and can't be changed.  A3 is to C#4  you want to know the right rate
> here.  Sure you can set F3--A3 beat to be the same as C#4--F4  by
> tuning both F's  flat, but how does that tell you have C# right?
> Hopefully I will run into Jim at the convention and maybe he can
> demonstrate.

I thought so too. I dont know why it works but I beliave everything Jim Coleman says
I can only say that tuning auraly it works very well
Finding an equal speed is easier than finding a contigues relation.
If the F's are in tune but too flat the F3-A3 is too fast  and the C#4-F4 to slow this makes the third in the middle (A3-C#4) perfect (if they are equalbeating of course) 
Funny but it works. 
I hope I will run into Jim myself one day.

>     You say "| Yes but different pianos gives different beat speeds."
> I say they are so close at least in performing pianos the difference
> is not demonstrable or that the speeds are only a guide, not the final
> word.   

On my consols I find the thirds usually having slower thirds than theory
On better grands I found reality being closer to theory

>I say the quality of tuning is in the quality of 5ths and
> "octave + 5 ths" and "double octave + 5ths".  These  count more than
> the beat rates of  3rds.  If tuning F flat and then retuning it
> correctly helps to get better 5ths then I am "all ears".    ---ric

I also use alot  5's and 4's in this temprement but I write about that in next post.
Give me a day or two. There are more good advice's from Jim Coleman.

When tuning Vallotti I've found out that I like to tune the pure 5ths first and the white tempered ones last. So by using this way of finding the A3-C#4 third I can tune the pure 5ths from C#4 and temper contigues the white 5ths and 4ths. Is this a good idea? I'm not an experienced HT tuner so don't take my word for it but I find it logic and it works. I wrote about that temprement to the list but didn't get any comments. 

Yours

Ola Andersson

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ola Andersson <pianola@online.no>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:32 PM
> Subject: SV: The JC ET part 1
> 
> 
> | Hi Richard
> |
> | Yes but different pianos gives different beat speeds.
> | I know it's possible to tune the F3-A3-C#4-F4 contigues to start
> with
> | but I found it easier to do what Jim Coleman taught me and tune the
> A3-C#4 first with help of tuning those thirds equal beating with the
> F3 and F4 2bps flat. after finding the A3-C#4 I tune the
> F3-A3-C#4-F4-A4 contigues. Try it. It's fun. Please give me a response
> on that.
> |
> | Yours
> |
> | Ola Andersson
> |
> |
> |
> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: Richard Moody <remoody@midstatesd.net>
> | To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> | Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:30 AM
> | Subject: Re: The JC ET part 1
> |
> |
> | > I find setting the A--C#--F--A   in the very beginning gives a
> great
> | > advantage.  I use A3--A4 as proven when F3--A3 and F3--A4  beats
> | > equal.    It makes an interesting exercise to tune in this
> | > order, A3--C#4--F4--A4, then C--A4 listening only to the beats of
> the
> | > 3rds and the one 6th and then compare C4-F4 to see if a good
> fourth is
> | > there.
> | >  ---ric
> | >
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From: Ola Andersson <pianola@online.no>
> | > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> | > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:32 AM
> | > Subject: SV: The JC ET part 1
> | >
> | >
> | > | This part might be confusing
> | > |
> | > | > It is also possible to tune
> | > | > F3-A3 "8bps" A3-C#4 "9bps" C#4-F4 "10bps"
> | > | > Like I sometimes get the the F3-A3 same speed as A3-C#4 but
> the
> | > C#4-F4 is slightly to fast. >Then I make the C#4 slightly sharper
> so I
> | > get a progression of the thirds.
> | > |
> | > | I meant this is still the A3-C#4 third speed test
> | > | It's before tuning the F's contigues to ET.
> | > |
> | > | Ola
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> 
>