This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Don=20 To: pianotech@ptg.org=20 Sent: June 08, 2001 1:34 AM Subject: Re: soundboards improving with age? or what else? Hi Del, =20 You are right that pianos are not violins. However, are you suggesting that the top and bottom "plates" (i.e. sound board) don't vibrate on a violin acting as a transducer--just like a piano sound board is a transducer?=20 Yes, but that's about where the similarities end. As you say, = the four strings of the violin have a total tension of somewhere around = 80 pounds (about 36 kgf.), on the piano its typically between 35,000 and = 50,000 (about 15,900 to 22,700 kgf.). The downforce from the string = plane of the piano against the soundboard is between 250 lbs 750 lbs. = (115 and 340 kgf.) I don't know--have never had the need to figure it = out--the down force against the bridge of a violin but it's going to be = some very small fraction of that. That alone separates the two.=20 =20 I agree there are many differences--but it is not Oil and water as you seem to indicate. Well, as you say...they are both wood and they both vibrate. The = list of their structural and operational differences is some longer. =20 There has been some research done on how violin plates vibrate in free air. So far as I know there have been none done on pianos. Surely both do vibrate, and both are wood. It would seem prudent to at least look at the research for similarities. Oh, I do whenever I come across them. But I don't really seek = them out. Similar studies have been done with the piano soundboard--many = of them--but they don't tell us much about how the real-world piano = works. That is not the normal environment of the piano soundboard. The = piano soundboard (typically) has its entire parameter glued to a = relatively solid and massive rim in what amounts to a clamped-edge = configuration. (The mounting of the violin top is closer to a hinged-end = configuration)=20 Piano soundboards have also been studied glued to the rim but = not loaded with all those awkward strings--the plate and strings get in = the way of the test equipment, you know. Some time back I read through = the report of a researcher who did some extensive modal analysis on a = grand piano soundboard. Tens of thousands of dollars were spent on this = analysis, but in the end the information, while of much academic = interest, was of no practical value to the manufacturer who had paid the = bill. The entire analysis was done using an unloaded soundboard. Things = just change too much once the strings go on.=20 And it's not just the loading of the soundboard by the string = downforce. We also have to consider the interaction between the = soundboard/bridge and the string plane. There are just a whole lot of = things going on there and all of them are going on simultaneously. The = vibrating characteristics of the soundboard panel and assembly change so = much between its freely suspended condition and its more normal clamped = and loaded condition as to make all of these studies academically = interesting but practically useless.=20 There are also some limited studies that have been done using = loaded soundboards, all of them using vertical pianos--it's easier to = get at the soundboard in a vertical. We're finally getting on the right = track. I am sure that the studies done on violin tops are certainly = interesting and they surely tell the researcher much about how the = violin top vibrates in free air. But I must wonder just how much that = reveal about how that same top performs when it is fully assembled, the = instrument is strung and played. In the case of the piano soundboard = it's like the difference between oil and water. =20 I do agree whole heartedly that the sound production is *different*. A high tension piano vs a low tension fiddle. (about 80 lbs total tension on a fiddle btw).=20 =20 Yup. they are different. Regards, Del Stamp powered by www.mailround.com=20 Click here to join YOPTIN and WIN COOL PRIZES=20 =20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/24/8c/38/83/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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