to Keith and list

[Tony Caught]

Hi Antares,

 We were all talking about the 'killer octave' on the list a few weeks ago
Steinways of course was the major piano concerned.

All the methods of regulating, hammer realigning & changing etc came up as
the method of fixing the problem. And of course changing the soundboard.

Del is of the opinion that the soundboard looses its stiffness in certain
areas and that that is the actual problem that has to be overcome.

We talked about loading the offending section with springs as being a
successful solution to this problem and many concur that this is one way to
go.

Me, I am waiting to get permission to try out these experiments on a
Steinway D. I want to record the entire process starting with the partial's
magnitude of all notes in the area before any work is done to see if I can
located by some other method what I can hear, isolate the problem then
record the differences as springs are added etc.

The original possible cause of this problem can I believe be tied into your
saying 'new is better'. The compression on the original boards deteriorates
the board faster in the treble than the mid or bass section because of the
shorter  width of the board in that area.

As you say the bass and mid sections are good but the upper treble sucks.

Seem to me that the board is over compressed to begin with and though this
may give a fantastic tone to begin with, it will deteriorate very rapidly
with time.  In a piano worth $100,000's is this a good practice ?

Tony


> Well...what can I say...(?)
> I was beginning to think that I was the only one with my ideas about 'new'
> sound versus 'old' sound.
> To me, it is absolutely clear. My ears are healthy, and, I 'might' add,
that
> my daily work consists of working with new Steinways and old ones. I can
not
> deny that there is of course (to me!) a big difference.
> However, these last internet days have shown that there are many different
> opinions about the very same subject.
> The only thing I regretted was that there was no one saying : yeah..of
> course! a new always sounds better!
> I may have said it before (in that case I apologize), but I have a
tendency
> to simplify things, and I wish to see these matters as clear and practical
> as can be... so no mysticism or complicated stories about old versus new,
> the real technical aspect of this issue is not for me to answer, but for
the
> true 'wood, design, and construction hero's' here on this forum for whom I
> have really great respect.
> I just can't help it that I like the sound of a new grand better than the
> sound of an old one.
> Today for instance, I have worked 8 hours non-stop on a STW D at the
> Amsterdam Conservatory. I know that instrument very well... I was the very
> first tuner to tune it, about 20 years ago, and my wife, who at the time
> studied piano there, played her final exam on that very same piano.
> When the Conservatory bought it, it was brand new, and it had some nice
> aspects, of course. However... soon, it turned out that there were some
> problems and especially in the treble. Also, the overall sound was a
little
> too weak, and all the flanges got 'slow'.
> So, after just one year, a Steinway tech came over from Hamburg, stayed
one
> week in a fine hotel and only did a hammer change, and all that for a
> fantastic! sum of money.
> 15 years later, the instrument got new strings, a 4th set of hammers, new
> dampers and bushings, plus a thorough cleaning.
> It is now 20 years old and a shadow of what it was before.
> That's why, today (a Sunday, and I had to really kick the students out of
> the door), I worked like a dog and, with all my experience, tried to bring
> back something nice.
> So it's a lot better than yesterday ... but what a fight it was! bass and
> middle section are beautiful, as always, but that trouble treble! it's
> always the same! Whatever we do... we file, we tune, we regulate, we fit
the
> hammers, we voice, we know all the tricks. so we make something of it, and
> we mask the misery of 20 years 'old age'.
> My back hurts and I am tired (but then that's our life) and the D is nice,
> for some time, but indeed...give me a new one anytime!
>
>
> Antares,
>
> Amsterdam, Holland
>
>
>
>