Stretching the 5th and 6th octaves.

[Kevin E. Ramsey]

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    Richard Brekne wrote;=20
    "I have to admit that since becoming fascinated with Virgils so =
called beatless
octaves my tunings have stretched out significantlly. Getting three very =
clean
sounding notes (4:2:1) is actaully pretty easy.. tho its still hard to =
stretch
much beyond that. I tend towards just a tad wide on the double =
octaves... no
wider then leaves them sounding "apparently" beatless. Combined with =
this unison
approach I was on about with Don a while back gives a real nice "cling" =
to the
total result... but its quite stretched compared to what I was doing a =
couple
years ago. I havent found an easy way to get RCT or Tunelab to =
precalculate this
for me yet... but then I havent spent a lot of time trying either."

    I've got a couple of responses to my earlier postings about not =
stretching too much, and I'd like to clarify things just a little bit. =20
    Tuning in the mid-range of the piano, a 4/2, 2/1 double octave is =
just fine with me, in fact, I do it all the time. I don't consider my =
tunings too conservative at all. I allow as much stretch as possible, =
without an objectionable beat to the double octave.=20
    The responses I have read seem to indicate to me that quite a few =
tuners like to tune so sharp that the octaves in the "killer zone" have =
noticeable beats to them. They'd have to, given some of the things I've =
heard. I find that when I tune pure double octaves in the top octave, =
they have a pronounced beat. That's about the only place where I don't =
really care, because people generally play melodically up there, they're =
not playing octaves, and if they were, they would probably not mind a =
little beating.=20
    I also take into consideration the kind of player they are; for =
instance, if they play jazz, they're going to not necessarily want a =
real sonorous sound, the way a classical pianist who plays Brahms would. =
In that case, the more stretch the better.=20
    I've also worked with tuners who want to stretch things to the max; =
for instance, I know one Concert Tuner who tunes his A4-A3 octave at 4/2 =
plus 2.5 cents. If he tunes a relatively pure 4/2 in this region, it =
sounds dull and lifeless to him. I checked one of his tunings once, and =
the double octaves had a beat rate of between two and three beats per =
second. I just try to avoid this kind of thing. Maybe my classical =
upbringing. (Yeah, I play Brahms occasionally).
(But I prefer Poulenc.)
    I also have no compulsion against stretching the lowest half octave =
down way past 6/3. Just because the machine says that that's where it's =
supposed to go, doesn't mean that it's right. I'm talking F1 down to A0. =
As long as it helps out the double and triple octave. I usually do this =
on grands, not uprights.
    Someone asked me why I have my priorities the way I posted. Unisons, =
Octaves, Fifths, Fourths, Thirds, Tenths, Seventeenths.  Well, that's =
the inverse order in which you are going to get complaints. My =
temperaments are perfectly equal (Excuse me Richard), but do you think =
anyone notices? No, but they will notice a fifth that's a little busy, =
because "there's this one piece, where I play this one =
chord,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
    I've attended classes given by Jim Coleman Sr., where he had three =
pianos tuned with three different amounts of stretch, and asked =
technicians to vote for which one they liked best. You know, they all =
sounded pretty good, as long as the unisons were crisp, and the octaves =
not howling. So why don't we quit striving for perfection and throw the =
machines away?  Don't worry, be happy?   Because if we care about what =
we do, then we have to feel that we have done the customer a service.=20
    I admit, if you want to tune a little on the conservative side, you =
had better go over the piano twice, pounding as you go, because what can =
sound in tune when you start, can quickly go south after a few hard =
blows. Takes a little more work, but I think that the customer deserves =
it, especially if you're charging for a concert type tuning. Amazing how =
many people don't care what it costs, they just want it right! (BTW,my =
rates are not terribly out of line, but they get a good sounding piano =
when I'm done. I really never have any complaints, just a lot of =
compliments.)
    On the other hand, even the people whom I've talked to & observed =
have admitted that if you go too far, things fall apart rapidly. ( Like =
the first time they turn on their air-conditioning).
    I hope that I haven't rattled anyone's cage too badly here, I mean, =
it's all a point of view. Some people may like Picasso stretchers, some =
people my like sonorous tuners, most won't be able to articulate what it =
is or isn't they like or don't like, but they'll call you back if they =
like your work.

    Kevin E. Ramsey
ramsey@extremezone.com=20

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