Steinway

[JIMRPT@AOL.COM]

Wim we would accept this type of reasoning from a dealer but not from a CAUT! 
:-)

In a message dated 26/07/01 11:11:48 PM, Wimblees@AOL.COM writes:

<<" This has been brought out before, by me. Three years ago a customer asked 
me 
to appraise a S&S S he had bought 10 years earlier for $20,000. He was told 
the "investment" story by the *local dealer* and now wanted to cash in his 
investment, and make a bundle.">>

 The operative words here are *local dealer*. Further you only have the 
customers word for the 'supposed' dealer's wording of the "investment" 
qualities of his S&S. What the customer wanted to hear and what the dealer 
actually said 'might' be vastly different things. This is not nearly enough 
evidence to paint S&S as "unethical" in any sense of the word.'


 <<"He called the Steinway dealer and was told new 
S's were selling for $35,000. He assumed that is what he could get for his 
piano. ">>
This is just plain stupidity on the customers part. Ethics certainly does not 
enter into this customer greed quotient.

<<"He was astounded that I would not only not give him $35,000, but that 
his piano was worth at most $20,000 if he tried to sell it himself,">>
This is further evidence of this customer's stupidity in expecting a dealer 
to pay what a new piano would cost when that same new piano would be at a 
'much lower' cost to that dealer on a wholesale basis.

<<" and that 
I would only give him $10,000">>
I have no problem with this at all.  But what would you have sold it for? 
Hmmmm?

<<"I am sure there are other customers who have been "duped" the same way. 
This 
is, in my opinion an unethical way of doing business.">>
 I am sure that buyers have been "duped" any number of ways by any number of 
dealers but this does not needfully mean that S&S is engaging in "unethical" 
practices itself.

 <<"And from what I see on 
the list, many others agree.">>
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions...however wrong they might be. :-)


<<" Look at the Steinway web site. There is nothing 
wrong with what they say. But the way they say it leaves a lot to be desired. 
Wim ">>
Perhaps it is your interpretation that is flawed Wim because I see nothing 
wrong with what they say....but you have to read what they say and not read 
what you think they have said.

 For instance they say "...vintage S&S grands sell for 4.3 times the original 
retail cost..." well in a lot of cases that is exactly true...... would you 
not buy a model 'O' for 5 or 6 thou? I would and the original retail cost for 
model 'O's was in the neighborhood of 1,100 and what would you sell that same 
'O' for after it was rebuilt? Hmmmm?
 and they say".....Treasured possesion that grows in value over the course of 
time.."
and this also is exactly true, at least for grands. The Emerson grand that 
sold for 490 dollars at the turn of the century most of us probably would not 
buy for more than 2/3 hundred if that, or at all. But how many of us would 
buy every model 'A' S&S that we could get our hands on for ten times(+) that 
and the model 'A' sold for about 1,100, also at the turn of the century.

 Further Wim the "investment" section on S&S web page leans heavily on work 
done by Forbes Magazine, R.H. Bruskin & Associates Piano Market survey and 
along with work done by the Washington Post. Each of these sources is 
foot-noted and identified. Without going to these sources and examining those 
documents I don't think there can be any discussion of S&S perfidy. There 
certainly is none in what S&S themselves say.

 Further Wim S&S says ".....look past the previous ten years and look at the 
historical appreciation over the past few decades...." 
  On this point Wim they are on absolutely rock solid ground. We as 
technicians prove it every day when we give our estimates for rebuild, 
insurance appraisals or offers to purchase.

 I am definitely not a S&S coporate fan though I love 'some' of their 
products, new and vintage.
In my opinion, calling their "investment" section "unethical" is playing 
footloose with the term and on verrrry shaky ground.

 If this is all the specific info on S&S and "unethical practices" I think it 
should cease..........but that is just my view.
Jim Bryant (FL)
"A greedy dealer and a greedy customer are each other's lawful prey"
Faintly Dull