in tune, perfection

[Tom Servinsky]

Dave,
Well stated. I had attempted to say something  similar in a past post but
never got close to explaining my thoughts as clear as you have just done.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about the gross tuning discrepancies which
do exist throughout all of music, yet when one stands back and listens to
the "whole" sound the individual problems are not as obvious as they
actually are.  As a former music teacher, a current symphonic musician, and
obviously a piano technician, I've experienced the tuning problems from
every possible perspective imaginable and yet  when the show goes on the
problems appear to disappear.
The human psychic is a wonderful thing.
Tom Servinsky, RPT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Nereson" <dnereson@dimensional.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 7:18 AM
Subject: in tune, perfection


>
> << . . . . Are all the violins in a symphony at any time exactly in tune,
or
> is the fact that there is some difference, which produces a chorus effect,
> desireable for producing a complex wave, therby making a bigger overall
> effect.
>  ( 40 piece choir, also ). . . .>>
> . . . . >>--Carl Teplitski >>
>
> No, all the violins, nor all the other instruments in the symphony, are
not
> exactly in tune with each other at any given time.  In a junior high
> orchestra or band, they may at times be out of tune with each other as
much
> as almost a half-step (100 cents), at least when first sight-reading or
> learning a piece.  One would think that in a professional symphony, they'd
> be within, say, 5 or 10 cents, but
>
>    << Pitch during intense and/or wide vibrato
>    << is on the order of +/- 20 cents.  This is analogous to the very
rapid
>    << beating of 3rds & 6ths found in the remote keys of any Cycle of 5ths
>     <<based temperament.
>         --Bill Bremmer>>
>
> as a string player, I can assure you they're never that close, yet the
music
> still sounds fine, which is why I question some of this hair-splitting
over
> a few tenths of a cent, or even a cent or two.  I maintain that the
average
> listener just doesn't detect these small differences, especially if the
> piano is not playing solo.  I'm not advocating bad tuning -- just
wondering
> how many people even notice that anything sounds "sour" until a unison
> (between two instruments) or even an octave, is beating more than about 1
or
> 2 beats per second.  It depends on various things like whether it's a low,
> middle, or high register, if it's during a quiet or a loud passage, what
> else is going on in the music, how piercing a tone the particular
> out-of-tune instruments have, etc.
>     During the first opening thirds of Debussy's "Au Clair de Lune", a bad
> unison or too-wide third would be audible to discerning listeners, as
would
> G#3, if it were "out" at the beginning of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata",
> but in the middle of a crashing concerto with everybody vibrato-ing and
> playing fortissimo, and especially if there's also a choir singing, as in
> "The Messiah", and they're also all using
> vibrato, I'll bet there are regular pitch discrepancies of almost a
> quarter-step (25 cents) even in the best symphonies and choirs.  But the
> overall effect sounds "in tune" because none of those notes last very
long,
> it's not quiet enough to hear the beats, and the musicians are constantly
> adjusting their pitch.  It's like looking at a forested mountain from a
> distance -- the color appears uniform (green, or maybe a hazy blue or
> bluish-grey), but when you're on that mountain, the various trees have
many
> different shades of green, plus other colors like
> the brown of the trunks and branches, the grey of the rocks, etc.
>     No, I don't leave my octaves and unisons beating, but I have had
> customers ask why I keep pounding/tuning a note over and over when it
> doesn't sound to them like I'm even changing anything.
>     I've heard musicians tuning up before a gig, and when they're done
> tuning, I can hear that maybe the trumpet is sharp, one of the guitar
> strings is still flat, the bass's E string is quite flat -- whatever --
and
> they're thinking "close enough for jazz", yet when they play, it sounds
> fine, unless they were still grossly out of tune with each other.
> Out-of-tuneness probably would be more noticeable in a brass quintet or
> string quartet playing slow, quiet music than it would be in a loud jazz
or
> rock band, or for that matter, a loud symphony with a hundred instruments
> and forty voices.
>     If there's one golden aspen tree in the middle of 50,000 pines, you
> won't see it from 5 or 10 miles away and if there's one violin a
> quarter-step flat at the end of the 1812 Overture or perhaps during "Rite
of
> Spring", nobody will hear it except maybe the conductor and the
violinist's
> stand mate.            --David Nereson, RPT, Denver
>
>
>