Natural Beats

[Murray Seminuk]

Hi Richard
I have in the past made reference to this same window in which finer tuning
can still be done.I do find that usually the lights have stopped and the
unison is still out.Have you been to one of Virgils seminars?I have , and I
asked him this exact question.He didn't have any idea of what I was talking
about any more than I had of these natural beats he was speaking of.This is
my own opinion but I did not think his unisons where nearly as pure as you
are talking about here.I really think that it all comes down to what you
train  youself to listen to and for .I think you are on the right track to
some finer tuning .Listening is what our profession is all about.but it is
often sad to see how some don't use this skill.In the past many people have
come down very hard on Mr. Bremmer and his HT ,but what he is really doing
is listening very closely to what he is producing in his temperment.Keep it
up Bill.I would hope some day that I could in person hear what you are
talking about because listening is the only real way of knowing exactly what
you are describing..
. Again you are right about all this jargon about
phasing ,coupling ,decoupling ,phenomina.pneumonia,Etc.It is all just fancy"
talk",again not listening.

--Regards
Murray--- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Brekne" <rbrekne@broadpark.no>
To: "PTG" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:34 PM
Subject: Natural Beats


> Hi folks... gotta bring this up again as I have been dinking around,
> listening... playing with my RCT and Tunelab and in general paying
> very close attention to a lot of sounds I have been taking for
> granted these past hundred or so years and have started to wonder
> about something I thought I might throw out for your consideration.
>
> First... let me say I am convinced now there is a beat like
> phenomena that corresponds directly to Virgils natural beat. In a
> previous post I wrote something about a beat like sound that happens
> as you get very very close to an intune unison. You get past the
> long meeeeeooooowwww ish kind of effect and it pops up right at
> you.. very obvious really once you first notice it.... It beats just
> once and rather quickly (no more then a half a second or so), and
> then disapears.... as you adjust the unison you can get even this to
> dissapear.... or even become a bit slower before it disapears.. when
> it is gone the unison is like dead on intune.
>
> Well, I  got to thinking about why this isnt picked up by ETD's..
> why it hasnt been measured...(at least as a beat phenomena) and why
> it seems like so very very many tuners seem to miss "discovering"
> it. The last isnt so strange really, as its typical of the kind of
> bi-sound that we are taught not to listen to... then there is all
> this "mystic" surrounding the present term useage...
>
> But then this about why ETD's dont pick it up... and why its not
> been measured. This is a very hearable phenomena. That says to me it
> is measureable. But tho it is beat like.... its not a beat... at
> least not in the traditional sense. The affect, and manipulation of
> it reminds me more of disscussions we have all had about attack and
> decay time.. strings in or out of phase... this kind of thing... and
> I got to thinking perhaps we have simply been looking in the wrong
> place for this little goodie.
>
> So I am wondering is it possible that as a unison is becomes very
> very close to being dead on intune... there exists a window where a
> beat like change in amplitude can exist and can be manipulated. I
> would estimate that the fastest rate of this "beat" I have yet to
> hear is about at the speed of 2bps and I cant seem to get it to go
> slower then about half that speed before it simply wants to
> dissapear. You can be a tad flat or sharp of the string you are
> tuning to... and depending on this you can also influence how an
> octave sounds.. we get right into this pitch fall thing...
>
> Anyways.. these thoughts have been swimming in my head the last
> couple days and I thought I would see what any of you have to say
> about them.
>
> One thing is seems very clear to me tho.. There is something to all
> this Virgil and his Natural beat thing.
>
> --
> Richard Brekne
> RPT, N.P.T.F.
> Bergen, Norway
> mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
>
>
>