To tune or not to tune?

David Ilvedson ilvey@jps.net
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:24:23 -0700


>I hope you don't do free estimates.

I agree!  Do any techs on the List give free estimates?  

David.



>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "pryan2" <pryan2@the-beach.net>
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:41 PM
>Subject: To tune or not to tune?
>
>
>> This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune three
>> un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone
were
>> tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old.  When I arrived at
>the
>> homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and
rot.
>> To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild.  In each case, I left without
>> tuning.  How can I avoid this in the future?  Is there a number of
>years-old
>> that you will not go out for a tuning?  How do I  weed out the tunable
>> pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone?
>>
>> Phil Ryan
>> Miami Beach, FL
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com>
>> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Jim:
>> >
>> > Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a
restringing
>> job
>> > where you are reusing the old block?  With what effect?
>> >
>> > David Love
>> >
>> > >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM
>> > >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org
>> > >To: pianotech@ptg.org
>> > >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
>> > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote:
>> > >
>> > ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids
>> > >
>> > >as well but have not used them.">>
>> > >
>> > >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes
>working
>> > >less
>> > >painful! :-)
>> > >
>> > >  Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so
here's
>> > >mine....OK?
>> > >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are:
>> > >1.) ease of use/application.
>> > >2.) consistency of results.
>> > >3.) aid in stringing effort.
>> > >
>> > >  My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is:
>> > >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't
effect
>> long
>> > >term results.
>> > >2.) gives verrry consistent results.
>> > >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T
>handle
>> > >like
>> > >I do.
>> > >
>> > >  The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and as
>a
>> > >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet pinblock
>> > >treated
>> > >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the
>block
>> is
>> > >dry.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all
>> > >
>> > >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how
>> consistently
>> > >
>> > >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always be
>> some
>> > >
>> > >tortional inconsistencies.  That being said I mostly like how they
>> tune.">>
>> > >
>> > >  The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like
>most
>> > >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be
>> termed
>> > >soft spotitis.
>> > >  This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft'
>spots
>> > >lined
>> > >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes
>they
>> > >will
>> > >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively
'harder'
>> rest
>> > >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin
>with
>> the
>> > >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this results
>in
>> > >your
>> > >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these
>> > >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td size
>> pins
>> > >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom.
>> > >
>> > >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will
>effect
>> > >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that
>are
>> > >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much
this
>> will
>> > >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the
>rest
>> of
>> > >the block.
>> > >
>> > >  If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of
>> > >stability, etc. are there, then keep on  keepin on.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >    <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple
>blocks
>> and
>> > >
>> > >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes
>> > >tortional
>> > >
>> > >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier.  My
>> > >srtinger(Terry)
>> > >
>> > >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would
>> > >appreciate
>> > >
>> > >any help in the  driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored
>> > >maple.:>>
>> > >
>> > >  Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do non
>> > >treated
>> > >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and
>> > >setting
>> > >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while
the
>> > >varnish is still at least damp.
>> > >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a
>measure
>> > >of
>> > >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood
>reason
>> > >for
>> > >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >   <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and
>allowed
>> for
>> > >
>> > >smoother rendering that would be fine.">>
>> > >
>> > >  Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely
>nothing
>> > >to
>> > >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to
>> > >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say
>that
>> > >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering
>much
>> > >better....or is that what you meant?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world
>> > >
>> > >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind
>,well
>> > >
>> > >preserved and unadulterated.  The pin torque is so even and the
tuning
>> ends
>> > >
>> > >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the
>tuner!!!!">>
>> > >
>> > >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with
>varnish
>> > >during stringing...wanna bet? :-)
>> > >My opinion.
>> > >Jim Bryant (FL)
>> > >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of
pinblock....drill
>> > >three
>> > >holes...
>> > >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for
>your
>> > >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4
>> hole..........install
>> > >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after
chipping/coil
>> > >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a
>> small
>> > >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the
>pinblock
>> > >with
>> > >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two
>> pins(be
>> > >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:).  Immediatetly try
>turning
>> > >the
>> > >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated
>pin.......wait
>a
>> > >few
>> > >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a week
>or
>> so
>> > >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>>





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