Scale design question

[Stephen Airy]

Since we're on the subject of scale design....  

I would like to restore my Ricca & Son someday, but I
don't know when yet.  Here's the current basic setup:

Wound Single-String Notes:  A#2 - F#10, B27
Wound Double-String Notes:  G11 - A#26
Bass/Treble Break:  B27 / C28
Plain Triple-String Notes:  C28 - C88
Broken Strings: A1, Right B27

Here's what I'd like to do IF possible/practical:

Move the start of the Double-String Notes from G11 to
F9.  Also, is it possible/practical to move the
bass/treble break, or would that take extensive
restructuring of the piano?  I'd appreciate being
educated on the plus's and minus's of scale redesign
in an upright piano.  If I was going to move the
bass/treble break, I'd want to move it lower, like
between G#24 and A25 for example, so I could have a
longer A1 string.  I would appreciate any correction /
education / whatever on the subject. :)


--- Delwin D Fandrich <pianobuilders@olynet.com>
wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vanderhoofven" <dkvander@joplin.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: March 31, 2001 9:29 PM
> Subject: Scale design question
> 
> 
> > I have noticed recently that the Baldwin 243
> studio, the Boston UP-118S
> > studio, the George Steck studio, the Steinway 45
> studio, a Kawai studio
> > (model number unkown) and the Yamaha P-22 (if I
> remember correctly) all
> > have the first plain steel wire on the treble
> bridge starting at note D#3.
> >
> > There are several other sizes of pianos that have
> similarities in scale
> > design.  For instance the Steinway D and several
> other large grands have
> > the lowest plain steel wire at note F2.
> >
> > Is there a reason for having these similarites in
> the scale design?  Did
> > these companies all copy the same design?  Or is
> it just because for a
> > given size of piano there is an ideal maximum
> string length and diameter
> > for the lowest plain steel string?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > David A. Vanderhoofven
>
----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I can't speak for the others, but in the Baldwin 243
> studio -- at least as I
> redesigned it in the mid 1980s should make the
> transition between tri-chord
> plain steel wires to bi-chord wrapped wires between
> F-33 and E-32.
> 
> F-33 in this piano is only about 812 mm (approx.
> 32.0") long. This is very
> short for a steel string. In this scale it is a #21
> wire (0.047" or approx.
> 1.2 mm) and still has only 158 lbs (approx. 71.7
> kgf) of tension. While I
> would normally consider this tension to be quite
> adequate in a piano of this
> size, the way the original tenor bridge was laid out
> the tensions just an
> octave or so above this were averaging upwards of
> 200 lbs (approx. 90.8
> kgf). My mission -- which I chose to accept -- was
> to make the scaling less
> bad without spending any money. This precluded
> making any substantial
> changes to the plate. Things like relocating the
> V-bar were out of the
> question.
> 
> To go any lower with plain steel wires in a scale
> this short would have
> required using an even thicker -- more massive --
> wire, something I didn't
> want to do. It makes the tuning transition from
> plain steel to bi-chord
> wrapped even worse than normal and they generally
> sound pretty tubby.
> 
> This piano has the bass-tenor break at C-28/C#29. I
> don't know why this
> crossover point was originally chose. It would not
> have been my choice in a
> piano of this size. I do know we weren't going to
> change it during the
> redesign.
> 
> To some extent there will be similarities in the
> design of pianos of similar
> size because of the dictates of what has been
> considered 'good scaling.'
> There is also a great deal of copying going on so
> that the mistakes of one
> design get passed on along with its strengths. In
> small scales this has
> mostly been mistakes. I don't know of any 'good'
> scale designs (in my
> opinion, of course) currently being produced in
> small pianos, either small
> verticals (say below 115 cm, or 45+ inches) or small
> grands (say shorter
> than 160 cm, or 5' 3"). .
> 
> And who ever said -- more properly, who ever proved,
> that E-20/F-21 was the
> best place to cross over on a large scale such as
> those typically found in
> our so-called concert pianos of today? (So-called
> because a piano of any
> size used in a concert becomes a concert piano. Some
> of the most enjoyable
> concerts I have attended used pianos in the 200 to
> 225 cm (6' 7" to 7' 5")
> range and were performed in halls seating only 200
> to 250 people.)
> 
> Del
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text